How do you become a Ferrari technician?

The site, www.grandamerican.com, isn't a site for race related jobs. Its actually a premier professional sportscar series in North America. Their schedule covers the US, Canada, and Mexico. Many teams welcome younger persons to do the "grunt" work. This entails cleaning duties, tire running, pit set-up, simple mechanics, shop and equipment maintenance, and long, hard hours. But its a great way to get close to complex mechanics and high technology. It will take years to begin to grasp the full complexity of these type of high profile racecars and even longer to earn respect and build a solid reputation for yourself...but you gotta start somewhere.

Remember, it never hurts to try. Email a team, email a shop, call someone, ask for their help. The worst answer you can get at the end of the day is a "NO". You have nothing to lose and EVERYTHING to gain. Be honest, work hard, and be patient. Don't settle for second best and your dreams can come true. It will not be easy though. Nothing in life will be handed to you on a silver platter (unless you are lucky sperm).

I continue to strive to be and industry leader with motorsports. I am probobly 10-15 years away from accomplishing my goals though. I have made many friends and business relationships along the way. I have also pissed off a few people and stepped on others toes in an effort to strive to be better (not intentionally, it just happens). You can't be afraid to make mistakes as long as you are willing to learn from those mistakes. Be honest, keep everything in the open. Try hard and stand up for what you believe in.

Best of luck and have a great holiday season.

Nick Gurucharri

 

Dave said: "I never said there was a problem with the dealership employment. My time in the official dealership was interesting and I worked with some wonderful folks.
Stepping stone job, yes. Developing a career based around the dealerships, no. That is a direction I wouldn't go."

I'm sorry, I meant to say that I think Brian and yourself do believe that there are significant shortcomings in the "factory" (in this case, FNA) training. While I think that is absolutely true, there are aspects of the training that would serve an apiring F-car tech well. I'm not sure people can follow the path I and many others used two and a half or three decades ago to "get into" this line of work just because of the level of specialized knowledge (and tools, the lack of distribution of which continues to defy the law of the land) required to work on the Motronic 5.2 and newer cars.

Denny, when you say "but now I know I have options on my way onto becoming certified...", that means to me that you desire to be "factory trained", which in FNA's (Ferrari of North America, the sole importer and distributor of cars in this country) case means that you have to be an employee of the dealership at a particular level to be sent to these schools. If you choose to work for even a good independent, that option is not available (I believe) to you. Therefore, you might consider starting at the bottom at a franchised dealership and progressing that way.

Denny, when you say "some of them said they were Ferrari Challenge technicians," that means that in this country (US), they were employees of the dealerships that participated in the Ferrari Challenge Series, conducted by Ferrari of North America and operated by IMSA, then by Grand Am. The drivers in this series were required to buy cars through and be "sponsored" by only franchised dealers. Some dealers embraced this concept wholeheartedly and others did not participate (IIRC), for those that did field several cars, each car required additional employees to run and look after the cars, never mind daily shop work on street cars. The learning curve was steeper, but a lot of the techs that worked for the dealerships on their Challenge entries learned a lot, fast! (pun intended!)

Have fun and good luck. I'd love to find a few younger folks that wouldn't mind busting a$$ and would be uncompromising in their approach. We could teach them as much as they could possibly want to know! <grin>

Merry Christmas!

-Peter

 

That's a personal preference thing... a bit like chosing a girlfriend really... librarians can be very sexy, whores can be as dull as ditchwater...

There's NOTHING subtle about a Lambo... but a non red Ferrari can be quite subtle... and Lambo's struggle to match the "class" of Ferrari... but it's a really fine line... they're like non identical twins really... love 'em both

 

how's your after sales service? anything questionable about that at all?

 

Oh boy, this thread just went in the toilet...

Spillover from the Aussie section, mate?

It was pleasant while it lasted...

 

cut and paste... not even worth a response really..

just watch out for the ******* heads... I'm very lucky, I've only met a very few... but they're out there....

 

well....ya know...there are things that people just need to know if someone's going to be taken seriously...and it's a worldwide audience, it seems.

 

and that's the attitude that's given you people's respect. i applaude that, and wish, as a ferrari owner, that there was more of it.

 

i've sometimes wondered (and no, i'm not referring to anyone in this forum) if some of the ferrari specialists have actually done any mechanical training in their lives. some of the work i've personally seen and/or heard about makes me wonder. I don't think having official ferrari training is quite enough when the basic mechanical aptitude is missing...and sometimes, i think that part's forgotten.

 

Sorry but Australia is such a different market place I have no idea what factors are at work there so I will not even try to address it.

In the US there are a whole host of reasons at work to cause situations like that.

 

ok...well try this (in any country)...my bro in law bought a 355ch. he wants it for road use (we can register and drive them on the roads here) so he wanted to put a cooling system thermostat back in it. the first thing that needs to be done is the plug that stop the water from bypassing the radiator had to be removed.

he took the car to the local dealer. they tried and tried but couldn't remove it. they said that it was stuck and that they were concerned about breaking the housing while trying to remove it, so they just left it in there.

he took the car to one of the "old school" mechanics who removed it using the usual method of undoing stuck things in about 30 mins all up!

so...back on the topic. the curse of ferrari ownership is mechanics. what i've noticed in my 30 years of ferrari ownership is that bad/dishonest mechanics can make a good living just by having the gift of the gab (is that a worldwide expression?) and that's very unfortunate. The stories I could tell!!

if you want to be a useful resource for ferrari owners, first, learn how to be a mechanic...how things work....how to repair things....be a stand up guy...learn to do things right the first time and if you screw up, admit it and fix it without delay.

Over the years i've been happy to pay to get good work done (like most other ferrari owners i know)...i resent having to go back to get things fixed that weren't fixed the first time, even if it is done happily and quickly.

Of course...if a mistake is NOT fixed happily and quickly...that's a whole different can of worms, right FF?

So there's the perspective of an owner.

oh yeah...as an addition:- i have also heard stories of owners who do the most terrible things to mechanics...so i know it's not a one way street with dishonesty and a lack of integrity.

 

Dave touched on something and I will go more into it but just to start with you and others keep referring to becoming Ferrari certified. There is no such thing. I have a few frames on the wall that have certificates in them but so do hundreds of others and Ferrari never really kept records of it. They kept saying they did but about every second or third class they would ask you to list the schools you had gone to. Seems no one ever kept records and people kept trying to generate some. It really does not mean much anyway. All that really means anything in this business is your personal reputation and that is hard earned and easily lost. It comes from a lot of years of doing good work and treating people right. It also comes from being associated with good shops and dealers. Being a great mechanic in a bad shop isn't going to do you any good.

What Dave and I have both touched on and left maybe a wrong impression of was the quality and accessability of factory training and that is mostly my fault. I said it sucked but that is not because either the trainers or the material were bad. Actually they were good. It was more about FNA's attitude towards it. They place so little importance on it that almost no resources are given it. Dave, Ferrari Doctor and I have all spoken about Ken McKay. Just using him as an example he was a guy that most of us really looked up to and trusted. He was the National Service Director or some such title and wore many hats. For years he was solely responsible for all training as well as almost every other aspect of the aftersale department. That left him with a couple of weeks a year he could devote to training. What did he have for equipment or other resources? Usually he could borrow an empty room with a few chairs and maybe if he was lucky a chalk board and a slide or overhead projector. You see there was no budget for training, not a small one, none. Once we had a warranty transmission to play with. IIRC that was the only real live car part we even touched in several years and that was so long ago it was when Ferrari had a West Coast location in Cypress. Oh we would go out into the shop and play with cars that were brand new and headed for dealers but if we got carried away and actually worked on them ***** would hit the fan. For a few years they started a program to send us to the factory for the important schools. There they had some resources in the training department. The trouble with that was others in the dealerships, usually people higher on the food chain were getting jealous that we got to go to the factory and they did not. Many dealers or at least people within them complained to FNA about cost. I once figured it out and my dealer spent less to send me to Italy for a week than to New Jersey. But no one wanted to hear that so it stopped. Back to the old program the number of classes and the topics covered was so meager that the dealers were only allowed to send 1 and if they were lucky 2 mechanics to a school. And they really wanted only the top guys to go. That included new product schools where a new car is being intro'd. That really did not matter to a Volvo/Alfa/Ferrari dealer in Terra Haute Indiana where they only have one Ferrari mechanic and he will forget all he is told before he actually sees one of the cars but it really hurts the big successful dealers. Also a school will not be repeated generally. When they have a series of classes for a new car they are not going to do it again next year for the guys that missed last time. That also causes another problem. What happens when your top guy leaves? Your store just lost all the knowledge and cannot replace it with out robbing the top guy from another store. It also assures something else. You will have to be in the trenches for years at least to work your way up the ladder to earn a spot in one of the classes.

I have been told they are trying to address some of those problems. I heard that when Ken was in charge, I heard that when Mike was in charge, I heard that so many times from 250 Sylvan Ave that now I just shrug and say I'll believe it when I see it. I'm still waiting.

Back when it was Rolls Royce/Bentley they had a great program. All instructors are located in England and have a specialty. The guy who spent his carreer working on convertible tops teaches the class on them. He travels the world teaching it. Miss the class on the new 1995 or 1984 model? No problem, it is still being taught. Also now hey this is really revolutionary, they test you. A real test. If you got a cert from Rolls/Bentley you knew the topic.

 

So Ferrari franchises pay flat rate? For some reason that surprises me, I had always thought they were either salary or hourly. But then what do I know, I've never looked into that. It's kind of sad really, as most mechanics know that flat rate is like a fuse being lit under your ass; you gotta rush rush rush to get the job done and move on to the next before the bomb goes off. When it comes to working on expensive cars, the last thing on Earth I need is to be rushed. I work at an Audi dealer (hence my unpronounceable s/n) and I'm on salary. There's pros and cons of course to every form of pay but for now I'm happy with salary. I know a couple guys who work at Prestige Imports in Miami and the Lambo techs make around $75/hour from what I'm told. Sounds like alot to some but it's really not when you only get one car a week for basic maintenance, maybe two if you're lucky.

Anyways I was just going to say that this is an interesting thread because I've considered becoming a Lambo tech but that's still up in the air. Good luck to you Denny in your endeavors, people will say your enthusiasm may not be enough on it's own, that may be true but I say it's a pretty good start!

 

Hate to stick a pin in the party hog but ASE's only make the admin types at dealers and customers feel better. It in no way assures someone knows what they are doing. At one time Ferrari wanted us to become ASE certified and I sent a couple of the tests to Ken McKay. After he had a good laugh he changed the policy. Also in case you did not pick up on it the first time I have had a number of grads from the schools sent to me, the top people they say. Right.

Like I told you earlier, ditch the trade school. Getting a real degree is far more important but if not get a job in the trade and do your studying on your own. Your education will be far faster, better and you will be paid instead of paying.

 

Sorry but the only way anyone is making 75 an hr in this biz is if they are stealing. I have seen it done in Benz dealers but they were stealing less.

 

You are correct about all that but from my experience it is trade wide. In fact it is probably world wide. My basic test is cooking a hamburger, it is about as easy as it gets. Do you have any idea how hard it is to get a good one?

From my experience the average guy at the Ford or Benz dealer isn't any better, or are you saying they are. If so I have a flying saucer to catch, sorry but this conversation needs to be continued later. If not....what?

And about your old school mechanic. He won't work in a Ferrari dealer. He like I will no longer be told everything wrong with the cars is his fault. Ferrari is famous for that. They create the type of situation where most of the people that have been around the block just won't put up with it any more. Only the kids with stars in their eyes want to put up with the BS and low pay all rolled up in one.

I'll also give you another perspective. I have seen a few bad mechanics in good shops. I have seen a lot of good mechanics in bad shops. The management sets the tone for how good or bad things are. I have been the guy in far too many cases that was prevented from doing the job in the way it needed to be done. Make sure you are blaming the right person.

 

having done all of the above: formal education (mechanical engineering), not so formal education (trade scool), big time racing and small time racing both as a mechanic and engineer, worked for one of the bigger car companies as a engine designer, dealer mechanic and independant mechanic and finally owning my own independent foriegn car repair bussiness.

I can tell you the best path to becoming a mechanic is to first be a good mechanic. That is to say either you have it or you don't. I have worked with and hired/fired many who have talked the talk but can't walk the walk. Ferrari/Mercedes mechanics tend to look at themselves in higher regard and in some ways it's true the technology and complexities are greater but again good mechanics do well and poor ones due poorly no matter what kind of car they are working on. In college you will spend years learning equations and theories which you will never again apply in the field you are interested in and in the same way in trade school you will take 12 week courses on rebuilding a Quadrejet carberator and how to diagnose OBD I fault codes. None of which will do you a damn bit of good. I say the best thing to do is truely evaluate your skill level and interest than be honest with yourself. Do you pick things up quickly? Have you been taking things apart and putting them back together for as long as you can remember?

As for what you can expect for pay lets just say don't get you hopes up and don't move out of moms house quite yet. No matter which way you go you will be low man on the totem poll and therefore get the least profitable and most undisirable jobs. You will also have a few years of very large tool payments that never go away but may lesson after you learn what you really need and what the Snap On Dealer is just trying to sell you. At my shop here in SoCal my mechanics did good and where right up there with the better paid techs at around 100k a year, but they worked for it and to make that kind of dough it takes years and the ability to do just about everything that comes your way, that means diagnosis and jobs that nobody else wants not just brake jobs and services. As a point of refference when I started at the dealer I was an oil change boy and I made 8 bucks and hour flat rate in 1994, I had to due appoximately 30 oil changes a day at .3 hours each just to get my pay and worked six 12 hour days every week for a year before they gave me a shot. I have seen the best that the high end dealers have to offer here in SoCal and have interviewed many, hired a couple and fired them all. I also have a box full of ASE and various other training certificated that aren't worth the paper they are printed on and the only reason I did them was that I used to get an extra .25 an hour for every certificate I had and the company paid for the classes so what did I have to loose, also for a while we used to get better rates from the parts companies if all the mechanics were ASE certified.

Now if you are leaning towards the racing side you may want to also consider they will all tell you can't work there without a degree but once you get there they will tell you "forget everything you learned in school, you do things our way". If you push hard enough and have something to offer it is fairly easy to get on a team but you will work hard and won't make much, not to mention there will always be some new kid wanting your job and offering to work there for cheaper. I loved working on a team and as long as your winning or at least duing well things are great and you are free to do your job but the second the team starts loosing you better grow a thick skin.

According to all the seminars I used to attend as a shop owner skilled mechanics are on the decline. The dealers and independants are dieing for good techs, but they will still hire the cheapist guy out there if they can. so go try it out for a while and see if it's your cup of tea. Set your sites high, and don't work for an ******. Like was said earlier life is to short to hate your job.

good luck to you and I hope you succeed,

Zac

 

I would agree the chances are very slim of someone becoming a career Ferrari mechanic, working on these cars requires a lot of pre thought and creativity to fix some of the problems so it take exceptional mechanical skills.

It takes creativity to custom make tools or analyze problems in a timely manner, sometimes you can spend hours on what should be a simple repair in another vehicle. Mistakes can be extremely expensive and costly to reputations of shops so a lot of other pressure on the mechanics as well.

The Ferrari world is very small as well, one big screw up from a mechanic once or twice then try and get another job at another shop, probably a lot of burn out as well, so to last many years requires a bit of skill, determination and luck IMO.

Those that say these cars are easy to work on have probably messed them up so bad they don't realize how much damage they have done and the cars will never be the same, I've worked on many types of vehicles and some are just poor designs and crap to work on such as Fords but Ferraris are in a different league where you just don't start ripping things apart and expect them to go back together and work the way they should, these cars are a challange to work on.

 

and theres the crux....

you are an obsessive/psychotic (not a diagnosis, just some words that fit in my experience)..

your car was an utter pile of crap when it arrived at my shop... I spent around 100 hours fixing numerous separate things and when you got it back it was fantastic again....

yet you chose to ignore the overwhelmingly good to come from our interaction and concentrate on a TINY negative...

How many of the tech's here offer 100&#37; leak free Ferraris?... That's 100%... not a single drop....

You had an unfortunately timed, un diagnosed oil leak from your sump, which amplified your reaction to a very small wholly manageble leak from your cam covers....

YOU also had the new leak mis diagnosed elsewhere and threatened to sue me for the cost of fixing the cam seals (which had nothing wrong with them) at many $1000... when the real fix was just a few $100 for new rear O rings and gaskets....

yet, despite your under handed dealings towards me, constant slander/libel (whichever it is)... I STILL love my job... very small glitches like Aircon (who used to list his real name but has since removed it) come and go occasionally in all businesses....

chdnny... don't let people like Aircon put you off... the satisfaction you CAN achieve is massive....

luckily, Australia is a land where you get out what you put in... It's the main reason I left UK....

 

goodness me!