355 throttle bodies on 348 project

Well ND hold your horses. First there are still some general ? yet unresolved and then FBB is still a skeptic that you can run an oem 2.5 system electronics as is and make more power. You see if you chug a beer out of a small glass vs a big glass you still got to get it down your throat. Your maps are all 2.7 motronic and plugzit has a 2.5 2.5 is very different. First it uses a totally backward TPS from the 355 or 2.7 348's. Second we need to confirm the 2.5 injectors are the same as the 2.7 348 injectors. He is running 355 fuel regs with 2.5 348 injectors. Still plugzit needs to do some mechanical tuning i.e. set-up all the butter flys right, duty tune things like his modified throttle bell crank, duty tune his airboxes positioning all before he even trys to reset his rear bonnet. Then after all this he should really get a wide band o2 sensor and a A/F meter to see what the car is doing while driving. Only then then can he begin to think about how he is going to change the map to suit his engine set-up. This is all oem and he either needs to gut it to aftermarket or piggy back a fuel controler. Of course the proper way is dyno time and ECU tuning or aftermarket but we all want to see him slug it out Billybob style to come up with an elchepo solution. Kudos to plugszit for laying his 348 on the line and letting us watch for flames and letdown. Just to give you an idea of how Billybob this project is going we had basically no diagnostic tools at his house to debug the initial set-up. So we all guessed at potential problems and did the process of elimination to get it fired up. Once we need to feel comfortable that we had some fuel pressure so since we had no psi guages I had the bright idea to crack the fuel rail fitting and crank the motor to watch the raw gas spurt out! Yup old school and dangerous...it worked we proved that with reasonable certainy but not an absolute number of psi. Once we found out the 2.5 motronic will not fire the 355 injector we dismantled the system again leaking fuel out of the full rails and changed the injectors out while Plugzit smoked his cig right over the rails as he worked. Well I'm am Billybob but even I called him out on that one since it was my eyebrows that would also be burnt. Yeah little things we had fun we were kinda safe but don't do this at home kids...we are professional stooges. I harp on people all the time for not being safe. Well do as I say not as I do...the fire extinguisher was pretty close anyway. It was great fun.

 

Yes indeed !!! When we went for a spin around the block, it had an insanely awesome sound!! Just a few refinements to go and it should run like a champ!! I thank the "stooges" for allowing me the opportunity to contribute!!

 

Does this make you an Honourary Stooge now?

 

Nooooooo! I've got 2.5 maps as well as 2.7 maps. No need for a piggyback controller. No need for aftermarket ecu. Just tell me "more fuel from 4,000 rpms to 8200 rpms" and you've got it. Tell me more advance or retard and you've got it. Tell me higher rev limit (and if I can find it) then you've got it.

Motronic 2.5 and 2.7 will do everything that the aftermarket and piggyback units can do. You just need my chips.

 

This was way cool. I felt honored to be there making history, although I had to leave before the final firing. We tested the 355 injectors under Dan's guidance to find that they did not fire at all, so the refit of the 348 injectors. Now, what is the capacity of those things? Can we get after market ones with more capacity, i.e., larger jets, if necessary? Then I am still wondering about fuel delivery as in regulator and pump. Even then, more pump and higher pressure don't get the fuel into the rails - that's the injectors' job. Still, this is a way cool experience. I got to get me a ride.

And the engine lid will not even get close to closing due to (1) the height of the air boxes which are just about 1/2 inch high and (more importantly) (2) the air boxes are right in line with the lid hinges. Got to figure a way around that situation, but I can tell u Bruce is leaning (at everyone's insistance) towards the Enzo mule Lexan cover (at least on the forward deck) to show off this incredible modification. Billybob wants to lower the engine with modded engine mounts - an interesting idea.

Who's next?!

 

Well the "stooges" are good group of guys! Hell the brotherhood is cool too! I will always try and help when it comes to turning a 348 into a 355!!

 

Even though goth drives a 355 Spider, he is a true brother.

 

ALL RIGHT! ND. I did not know you got that far in your decompile of the chips. Good work. We will put you to work.

 

Ya cheeky chop!

 

Motronic 2.5 partial throttle fuel map (Mondial T version) and Motronic 2.7 partial throttle fuel map (348 Spider version) shown here:
Image Unavailable, Please Login
Image Unavailable, Please Login

 

The Lambda ^ Trim is from the O2 sensor/MAF. "RPMs" is self-explanatory (AKA the "N" from "Alpha-N", and "Load" is your "Alpha" throttle position from the TPS.

 

Yes!!! Next he needs some 355 wheels!!!

 

Can someone tell me who Goth is in the pic please, so i can photoshop him!!!!!


Great work guys. very impressive. When it all works out, I'm up for doing it as well.

 

If anyone says anything they are dead!!! Angelis....you are on the right track with the your wheels!! I wish you F355 horsepower in the new year too !!

 

Should I do it?

 

I have a set of aftermarket 355 wheels with the bolts you need. Tires have only 200km on the tread. Car was traded in and we put the stock wheels back on it it. Trying to sell the rims for the owner of the car. Pm if interested.

I must say this project is VERY cool. Thinking about doing the same set-up to a TR (when I finaly get the damn thing.)

 

I just finished talking with Plugz about 3 hours ago. He drove it to Euro Sunday at the VCR. It was funny all the people looking at Plugz' engine and having no clue what we did. Plugz and I just chuckled to ourselves. Plugz said it ran fine but that it was running lean at the higher rpms. ND I'm sure you can fix that with a new chip. What we are gonna need it to get the fuel maps out of a 355, unless you already hve them. The other thing is that he still hasn't unplugged the battery, and then reconnected it, to let ecu's relearn the warm up parameters. I think that will help the rough running a bit. Can't wait to see what it puts down on the dyno.

Stooges rule.

 

Well PLugz has a set of the 18" challege wheels. He doesn't have them on the car because he needs new tires. He went through the tires before we did the mods with the TB's.

 

How can he tell its running lean? Is it "bogging" on wide-open throttle?

 

He didn't say for sure, but that's what I'm guessin?

 

Makes sense, but usually there is "reserve" fuel capability built into the system to accomodate different operating environments. That reserve is usually at least 10% headroom.

 

Yeah but remember he had to put back the stock 348 injectors, because the 2.5 wouldn't read the signal from the 355 injectors.

 

Not that I'd know, but I was under the impression that you'd get backfiring when shifting or lifting throttle at high rpms if you were way too lean, but would get "bogging" when you had too much fuel (especially at low rpms).

Also, car should run hotter when lean, cooler when rich...for ballpark guesstimates.