Red light and hidden speed cameras

Safety has never been an issue with government. Money is power and it is power that is the issue. Running RED lights and STOP signs CAN get you killed. I stop for both. Having said that, it it sometimes not possible to avoid the yellow light especially in wet weather. Therefore, as in the Union of Soviet Socialist Countys (Maryland) a 1.5 second yellow light is NOT about safety. If you shorten the yellow light you actually increase the possibilty of a t-bone accident occuring. Always follow the money trail. And, for all you left-wing fellows out there, I have not had a ticket in over 20 years and have no bone to pick. Do I drive my Modena fast?-you bet! I just follow the rule that there is a time and a place for everything. Know where the gestapo has posted those cameras and use your head. Cheers!

 

The trouble in the U.S. is that speed limits have never been set at the actual top speed that is considered safe for the road, but instead at least 10 MPH under that. In fact in some police jurisdictions, police are prohibited from citing anyone not traveling at least 10 MPH over the posted limit. I generally drive at 9 MPH or so over the posted limit and have driven past sitting police in at least 12 states and have never been stopped.

If the Australian policy were to be enforced here, they would first have to raise all the speed limits by 10 MPH to make rigid enforcement sensible; otherwise they would be pulling nearly everyone over!

 

nah over here not only did they not raise the limit most places it is dropping, often overnight. The entire point is they do want to catch everyone (for our safety of course) that is why the hide on the side of multilane high volume open roads rather than residential areas

 

In California they have to be able to identify the driver in the photo in order to issue a red light camera ticket. When it is not the registered owner driving or the picture is blurred at least nine cities are sending out "fake" tickets telling you that you either have to admit to being the driver or either identify the driver. These are not from a court but the camera company and you do not legally have to respond. Unless the "ticket" is from a court then throw it away.

Riverside has a couple of locations that are illegal but they keep issuing tickets since most people just pay. If you contest then it is automatically dropped.

What we are starting to see is that the cities are keeping the timing on the yellow lights since they got caught but now are shortening the green. Same effect in that they get to issue more revenue tickets. No independent studies in the US have shown that red light cameras improve safety or actually decrease the total number of accidents. Therfore their only purpose is revenue.

Here are some good sites for more information
http://www.speedingticketcentral.com
http://www.highwayrobbery.net

There is also a spray that some claim works. since the cities don't like it then it must be effective.
Photo Blocker Spray

 

A lot of them are. In fact, there's a headline on a daily paper today along the lines of "£750,000 in two months". ( http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/southern_counties/4463961.stm ).

I fell foul of the cameras and lost my licence. It's a fair cop, even though I didn't deem myself to be driving dangerously (dual carriageway at night and empty motorway) I have to hold up my hands and admit I was breaking the law.

I can understand the high-vis cameras being placed near schools or residential areas, but being done on an empty dual carraigeway at nearly midnight did get my goat somewhat.

 

Any lawyers have experience challenging these tickets? Seems to me (not a Criminal lawyer) that perhaps this type of ticket violates the 6th Amendment, since you can't confront and cross-examine a machine. At least a hand-held radar gun has a person attached to it who can testify.

Any luck with that type of argument?

Also, what if the driver wore a disguise? They can't impute a speeding ticket to the owner of the car like they do with a parking ticket, can they?

 

The same manufacture of those digital red light cams has a LIDAR cam for highways. From a remote location off the beaten path, a high zoom camera with LIDAR can zap speeders. Safety? Right.

Regarding USA, "Government for the people, by the people..", something got lost along the way. How did we get to where elected officials live off of our backs?

1984 is almost complete. You think for one moment that these GPS systems installed in your car or boat does not have hidden military "features" encoded on their chipsets? When we are face to face... remind me to tell you about why one of the largest silicon valley chipset manufacturers has set up a shop in Washington DC and why a select few of their civillian employees have been cleared with top secret clearance. Some of you may already know this...most of you don't have a clue what is going on.

 

Are they here to make us safer or just to mint money for the city that installed them?Listen up and then you can tell me.Approx 1 month ago I was headed for home on Newport Blvd .As I approached the intersection of 19th st and Newport,the light turned red and I stopped.This Intersection was one of the 1st in the country with a camera and I have seen and do still see,numerous "criminals" flashed as their pic is taken .Anyway,as I sat there waiting, the left turn lane lights turned green and the car opposite from me started to turn left infront of me.Suddenly a moron in the lane next to me and obviously intoxicated thinks the green turn arrow is a green for him and drag races thru the intersection and misses the car turning left by millimeters.I dont know how they missed each other.Did the camera flash and send this red light running drunk a ticket?Hell no!Obviously they are set to catch only the guy racing the Yellow/Red light change.Now you tell me which is more lethal.The guy chancing the yellow/red change where everybody opposing said red/yellow racer is stopped or anticipating such morons.Or the drunken Jerkoff who comes from nowhere and T-bones you in the intersection.Its a money machine and nothing more.

 

I was in Scotsdale last weekend and they've got guys sitting in white vans at the side of the road with darkened out windows trying to catch speeders. Just another revenue generator.

 

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
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Whenever I drive up to one the window's usually open, as soon as I'm alongside I just NAIL the horn.

Wakey wakey!!!

 

With the cameras in DC, I read a study that simply lenghtening the yellow for something like 1 second (have having an "all red" for about the same time period) dramatically lowered red light accidents.

However, when the cameras went in, some yellows were actually _shortened_ to enhance revenue. I have not seen a study that says collisions have been reduced, but I'm certain that revenues have been enhanced.

Bill

 

Just to add a little annoyance to this whole thing, here's my adventure with cameras from last year. They have installed them at the toll booths here in MA so that people going through the EZPass lane that do not have the electronic transponder will be busted. So I get a ticket in the mail for allegedly going through one of these things. They claimed that I went through the EZPass lane in my Ferrari in January (!) and had the photo to prove it.

1. The car in the photo was clearly a Ford Van.
2. The license plate only shared 3 digits out of 6 with my Ferrari's plate number!
3. Who on Earth drives a Ferrari in MA in January?
4. See #1!!

On the ticket there is no phone number to call, e-mail address or any other modern method of communication provided. You must respond via mail. So I sent it back with a letter of explanation via certified mail. You have no way to check up on it. You have no way to prove you have dealt with it if they decide to issue a warrant against you and arrest you.

Six MONTHS later I got a letter back apologizing for the error.

So here's the thing that everyone forgets about traffic cameras. At some point, a human has to look at the picture, read the license plate number, type that number into a computer, and issue the violation to you. There are multiple places in that progression where an error can be made. I don't know if the retard that issued mine was drinking on the job, didn't know the alphabet, left his/her glasses at home that day, or just couldn't type. (I'm betting money that in the interest of making this process cheaper for the state, they outsource this job to a company in India. You think I'm kidding.) The moral of the story is check the photo very carefully and make sure it actually is YOUR CAR in the picture!

Birdman

 

In the US generally a traffic citation for any reason, needs to be served to the operator of the vehicle, either by an officer of the court - a uniformed member of a police force or by an authorized agent of the court such as a process server.
Cameras don't do that. They identify the registered owner of the vehicle (via the registration license plates) that is speeding or running the red light and the operator of the camera (usually a private, for-profit company contracted with the jurisdiction) assumes the owner is the driver. A request to plead guilty and pay a fine or voluntarily show up in court is mailed (by regular mail). This is NOT an official citation. Pleading guilty and paying the fine makes it official, but if you simply ignore the request to pay, the private company is now faced with the choice of hiring a process server and serving the owner at the registered owner's address.

If they get the wrong person - example owner is a man and the photo is a woman, they are out of luck and most police jurisdictions will throw the complaint out before it reaches court and uses more valuable resources for nothing. Unless they can cross reference your photo in the picture to your driver's license photo and match that to the registered owner info, they are loath to follow up on ignored photo tickets.

The best solution in areas with photo radar is to simply register your car in a corporate name or have the husband's car in the wife's name and vice versa. That way the driver and the owner are different people and the citation is invalid from the outset.

 

You've given this much thought, haven't you?

Are all of your cars registered in your wife's name?

 

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That was the best and most interesting response to this thread yet, thank you!

Birdman

 

To paraphrase Sgt Schultz " I own nothing!!"

 

Great story:

My friend, Doug Daniels (doug348) lives in Central California. He saw his city was using photo tickets for speeders. Got in his car (not the Ferrari), put on a mask that make him look like a penis, and drove 20 over the limit by the camera. When he got the ticket, showed up in court to protest the ticket. Got off, but the Judge was very angry, told him he never wanted to see him again, or there'd be trouble.

Art

 

That's awesome.

Can't they still fine the owner of the vehicle from the no. plate?