Won't start - bummer

First, ditch the extra set of points, keep them for spares. Second, to answer your question, you can set dwell with the distributor placed over a degree wheel. You can find one online, copy it, print it, paste it to cardboard and use that if you dont have a "real" one. Use a test light or continuity tester to indicate points open/closed, and watch the light as you rotate the dist. over the degree wheel, noting the position of the rotor. Dwell = degrees points are closed, or dwelling, and would be = light on. Light on = 34 +/- 3 degrees, light off =56 +/- 3 degrees/balance of 90. Watch it all the way round, on a 30 year old car you will be lucky to find a perfectly symetrical cam. Find a mid point your happy with.

Make sure your advance weights are lubed and free, and after install, run it up to 5000 rpm plus, slowly, and simulataneously watch your timing light to see timing advance cleanly. If it has big jumps you should probably dis-assemble and clean them. Set your timing at the full advance position on the flywheel, 34 degrees, should get there just at 5000 rpm. Try to get both banks timed as closely to the same point as possible. You can check idle timing to see if the weights are hanging, but set timing at the high end, its far more critical.

 

Get rid of the R2!

 

I agree with Peter and Paul (and Mary?)

LOSE the R2 points. They are only there to retard the timing at idle so the car would run hotter and reduce emissions at idle. They actually make the car run worse. Ditch 'em. Remove the switch that selects between them, and simplify the whole ignition. You can throw them in a box with the rest of the "retarded" stuff you remove.

Birdman

 

Seamus,

The problem with your test setup is you want to test continuity on the primary side of the ignition ("low-tension", 12V, points-to-coil side) instead of the secondary side of the ignitions ("high-tension", 10KV, coil wire-to-cap-and-spark plug wires).

Take loose the primary wire from points at the coil and measure continuity of that wire to ground during the test (continuity indicates points are closed and open means points are open, d'oh!) or leave everything connected and attach a 12V test light to the primary wire at the coil for each bank, take loose the coil wires to the cap (so the car doesn't fire off when you turn the engine over) and when the light is on, the points are open. When the light goes out, the points are closed.

The "air gap" that you are testing will always show "open."

Call me or come by if you need more explanation.

 

Maybe I'm nuts doing it this way. I put the flywheel where I want static ignition, I put the distributor in place with the rotor aimed accordingly, put a spark plug on the #1 wire and ground the base of the plug to the motor, turn on the switch, and with the distributor able to rotate, turn it back and forth and witness a spark at the plug. As you rotate the unit against the rotors rotation, stop at the point it sparks and lock it down. I have never had trouble getting a motor running this way.

 

Yep, that's the easiest way...

 

That's how I do it too, but I use a light bulb instead of a spark plug; they freak me out! An LED works best but I have no problem with a 12v incandescent. My distributor has a 4 degree "find adjustment" so I can clamp the distributor down when it's "close enough" and fine tune it.

Ken

 

I think getting zapped a lot when I was a kid is why I have frizzy hair, lol. And I cant tell ya why, but the spark from a magneto on a small engine seems to hurt a lot more. But I have been VERY careful not to get bit by anything with electronic ignition. That crap can kill you.

I was helping a guy on his 72 Buick, was pulling off wires on the right bank. #7,#5,#3... I had all three in my right hand reaching for #1 when the SOB started the fricken motor. He thought it was real funny watching me stand there bouncing around. My arm hurt like hell for months, I banged my head on the hood. He didnt think it was so funny when I ripped all the wires off the motor and threw a hammer at his windshield and left. Almost 30 years ago and I can still just about count all the bites. If you know the firing order on a GM V8, you know 7 fires directly after 5, then a pause until 3 fires. Well, its to short of a pause at 500 rpm to let go.

 

I realise that by todays standards points are old school and seem very troublesome to many people. But outside of perhaps a Pertronics pickup in a distributor, there is nothing that has EVER BEEN more absolutely bulletproof than a freshly adjusted and clean set of points. If the cam is in decent shape, and the points are decent, no pits etc., once set, they should last 10,000 miles without any real trouble. But more to the point (pun intended) is that for at least the next 2 or 3,000 miles, the primary ignition is virtually bulletproof reliable as far as the distributor is concerned. Something else will fail, but it wont be the points.

 

I finally bought a distributor machine, makes it all much simpler. But you dont need one. Like I said, place the distributor over a degree wheel, out of the car, over on the workbench. I put the wheel over the bench vise and put the distributor in the center hole. Correct, light on with points closed. Get all your screws down tight and double check it on the bench before reinstalling. Check all your plug and coil wires for continuity. Also, look your plug extensions over very carefully. I wasnt even having running troubles anymore, but just happened to have the plugs out and noticed one extension was burned right through the side and the tip was melted. Still had continuity though. Make sure you dont have resistor spark plugs either. Make absolutely sure your timing it at the max advance mark, and your positive of the correct mark, with the engine revved to 5000, and make sure, by revving higher, that thats as high as it will advance. If idle timing is off, do something with the distributor (have it set up on a machine) to correct it.

My car runs great now. Starts right up cold, idles perfect, and screams all the way up without a fault.

 

GRRRRRR, I always think of something after I post.

Simple distributor machine. Chuck the distributor into an electric drill and spin it up. With a bit of ingenuity and wiring you can check dwell on your meter and set your points perfectly. Then when you put it back in the car youll know its correct right from the start.

 

The big plus to a distributor machine is being able to see when the advance occurs. Advance should start a bit above idle and go up smoothly. I prefer to have advance "all in" by about 3000 rpm.

 

Me too. Just a thought, remember that the distributor rotates at half engine speed.

 

Plug wire resistance should be less than 1000 ohms on your longest plug wires IIRC.

But first off, I think you need to start over fresh. Get out your VOM and check everything, voltage at the coils, grounds, coil internal resistance, your engine ground straps as well as battery earth. Check your caps, your plugs and plug gaps, condensors, and your wires and extenders. Are the extenders black or red? You need the black ones. The red ones have internal resistance for the electronic cars. BP6ES plugs seem to work well in points cars. Make absolutely sure the points screws are all good and tight after setting, then double check dwell. Also, are the points new? You may want to check the contact surfaces and make sure they are smooth. If not, use a points file and clean them up. The surfaces should have a very slight domed surface. Pitted points can throw your dwell off considerably.


Its a hassle, but only when you have checked everthing can you be sure the car will run correctly and reliably. If you question a condensor, swap them from bank to bank and see if your trouble follows it. Make absolutely sure your looking at the correct flywheel marks. You do know the two banks have different marks on the wheel? You are looking at the correct marks?? You are rolling the engine 90 degrees forward before setting the front bank? You know, we all can stare at stuff and think were doing it right, and come to find out.......


These are, I believe, the problems that wear guys out and convince them points are crap and they go electronic. But all higher voltage really does is mask problems. Nine times out of ten, the troubles keeping a points car from running decent, will exist with electronics and not even be noticed until you have a total ignition failure. At least the points cars warn you by running crappy. When I finally sorted it out, I found that all my major troubles were in the secondary ignition side. The points, once set correctly, just arent that big of a problem.

 

The distributor has ball bearings, so unless they are rough, it should not be an issue throwing the points off. The upper and lower shafts are bushed together. I cant see that wearing appreciably except with very high miles. But, you could check it. Push on the rotor shaft and see if the points move?

It is very easy for the points to move when you tighten the adjustment screw. In fact its almost impossible they wont. Sometimes you have to give yourself some extra leeway just so you come out right when the screw is tightened. I have almost never gotten close to correct dwell with a feeler guage, I gave up years ago. I just eyeball them and see where the dwell is and adjust from there. But, there has to be a visable gap, and a matchboook cover thickness is a good rough gap. You get it there and just about any points car in the world will run. Almost any running trouble after that rough setting, probably has nothing to do with the points. For example, you could have high or low dwell, and with it timed correctly you probably couldnt tell by how the car runs until it gets wound up, if at all.

What I'm saying is that once you determine the mechanical integrity of the distributor, and that its not loose and throwing your adjustment off, once you have it set it should remain so for a long time. If the car is still having running trouble, and the dwell is steady around 30 degrees, look somewhere else.

I once was given a Chevy Luv pickup truck that a guy gave up on. He spent over $900 at some shop having them try, and after a new carb, and a bunch of other junk it didnt need, all it would do is pop and sputter. And it had me scratching my head for a while.

The wire from the coil to the distributor had been stretched and was broken internally. Visually there was nothing wrong with it That is why I was saying you should look at everything. Its a 30 year old car. Who knows whats worn, broken or been messed up by some ham fisted moron. Dont overlook anything, no matter how obviously rediculous it may seem. You can also hot wire the coil directly, thereby eleviating any trouble upstream.

And remember, if its running lean its going to pop and sputter a lot too. While everyone agrees the carbs are the last thing you monkey with, sometimes you have to get them close to correct before you can go back to the ignition.