Brian, I know after the thread the other day that the nice men in the white coats were after you. Your response today illustrates to me that you have finally found serenity in your life and are at peace with "timing belt myth" crowd. I have to assume that the nice men did catch you and fed you some really good pills to put you in this calm state. Best, Dave
Forget the "timing belt myth crowd" stuff and the hysteria or the "you can't afford to service your car" stuff. The newest TSB from Ferrari says 3 years on ALL Ferraris with belts regardless of model correct? The original factory manuals have a nice little line about changing them every 2 years (not the owner's manuals). So, actually, Ferrari has UPPED the service schedule. So, once again I ask, where did the five year thing come from? Before I bought my car and read the manual I assumed that was the Factory saying that. Forget the pictures and BS I am honestly curious. Is the five year time frame the general recommendation/wisdom of trained/experienced Ferrari mechanics? Rifledriver, etc? Honestly curious and humble, Joe PS: And NO, I am not going to let my dream implode because I am too cheap to have the service done. I'll sell her to someone who can take care of her before that happens.
The time has been different for different markets. I suspect because of differing conditions. In the UK they live and die by the 2 year rule but it must be said that parts and labor are much less there than here. Many service procedures, life spans on parts, materials used etc are taught and distributed within the dealer network Some without ever being published, others are in the form of TSB's. The 5 year rule came from that within the USA and was from FNA. If that was ever shared with any other market I do not know. When the 360 came out it was lowered to 3 years. In 2002 and 2004 TSB's came out lowering all cars to 3 years.
[QUOTE=I don't have the originial owners manual for my 75 308GT4, but what do the owner's manual say for these cars. I don't have the manual in front of me but I seem to recall that it just has a mileage limit, not a time limit. In my view that does not mean one could go for decades as long as there aren't many miles put on the car. In fact I think the belt experts will tell you that inactivity is counter productive to belt life. Obviously Ferrari has revised its position regarding service intervals and I think it's probably for good reasons (one wonders about a make work project for thier dealers) but really probably because the result of a broken belt is so devastating and is now based on decades of experience with belted engines. Remember that when the 308gt4 came out the belt timing mechanism was relatively new for Ferrari so a revision, based on decades of experience, should not be viewed as unreasonable and should be treated with respect. It is really cheap peace of mind and insurance to have these things changed on a regular basis. I don't know about the 348, 355, 360 series but on the 308 series it is not that difficult or time consuming a job. If you do it yourself you will be forced to really think about how that gem of an engine works which further increases your experience and appreciation of the vehicle. If your a mechanical zero it'll cost between $500.00 and $1,000 or, at most, 333.00 per year, or about $27.00 per month assuming you change every 3 years. Personally I will go between 4-5 years all the while keeping a very close eye (and ear) on the belts and the bearings. My last belts weres 7 years old and looked in good shape but I would not ever go that long and changed them as soon as I bought the car.
What mechanic does a 308/328 belt change for $500, or even $1000, in the States? I think the parts alone would run several hundred bucks, assuming you replace the tensioner bearings. How do you keep an eye on it? At 7000rpm, it gets kind of loud and smelly under the rear deck. My Italian isn't great, but I tend to intepret the part of the TSB that specified every three years as meaning that the belts must be changed every three years.
A few of each of these and we are good to go. Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
Had a customer have his 512 Boxer towed in, wouldn't run, oil coming out everywhere. Air filters were soaked, what a mess. Said that every time he takes it out, the oil is 2 quarts low. Drained out about 40 quarts, we could not stop laughing.
hmmmm..... no wonder I don't own an FCar yet. Not that I can afford a 360, but I'd really hate to be THAT cars next owner. YIKES!!!! I guess you take a chance with any used car, but come on, someone owning a 360 should know better, or at least pay someone else to change the oil. YIKES!!!! very scary. James in Denver
Actually I hadn't considered parts, but I bought my belts this spring from the Ferrari Dealer in Vancouver $65.00 cdn each, and McCann sells the bearings (SKF) for $75.00 US each. So that's under $300.00. At a shop rate of $70./hr that leaves 10 hrs to change belts. If it takes your mechanic longer than that you need to switch mechanics. About the watching listening deal...I regularily visually inspect (small mirror and trouble light) my belts for damage and tension and I understand that a bearing when it begins to fail will make a noise, a warning if you will. If you are familiar with the sound of your engine, while tuning, at idle etc. when it is running properly you can then be alert to any unusual noises incuding bearing howl. I'd be interested to know what Rifledriver would charge for changing 308 tbelts and tensioner bearings.
I almost never work on 308's anymore but someone recently doubted it could be done without bearings for $500. I said line em up. It is about 3 hours work and about $125 in parts. It would be brain numbing work but I could teach high schoolers to do it. Bearings are an additional $300 or so. No one who is going to stay in business is going to sell the parts for much below retail. I'd be happy to give you the parts at cost but the labor has to go up. My prices at Mcann and yours are the same and with their service I could not stay in business so I almost never buy from them. No one else is as cheap but guess what? They give service. Imagine that, service. My business is like many others. Come in the door looking for a discount you'll get shown the door. Poeple that are good clients get good deals. Where are you getting work done well for $70 per hr? Bangladesh?
I had a guy from the local Benz shop come over and ask me how to change the oil in his customers 348. I showed him the pan drain plug and the oil tank drain plug and I saw a question mark on his face. I said "you know ...dry sump" He had never heard of such a thing. I told him "just don't work on it". He was a little miffed and I am sure his client is very happy he doesn't have to take it to the evil Ferrari mechanic.
No...I Googled him, highly successful litigation attorney on the Left Coast. Other board members have had troubles with his various automotive ventures........IIRC...he also was gonn sue Schmidt in St. Louis for wasting his time....a great thread on that issue. YMMV...... Why he would start a stupid thread, I have no idea.....LOL! Note: The thread is stupid I'm sure he's very wise in the ways of air bag failure litigation...... What is an air bag anyway...I remember my former Mother in Law........
Maybe to go after Ferrari for their indecisiveness in belt replacement recomendations ? That would be a good one. I want to sit in on that one.
Re: 1st pic in post#14: I didn't think that aluminum bonnet could support that kind of weight! Maybe I'm just uptight, but I cringe everytime I see people people; even chicks, sprawled over any part of a sports car.
I couldn't have said it better! It's amazing how many of these guys think that the money they paid for the car was all they were going to spend. In reality with some of these cars it is more like an "entry fee". Attorneys are prone to try to negotiate a price, but in my experience airline pilots will try to get the most from their nickel. I cringe when I see one coming. Educating new owners about the realities of Italian engineering is a necessary but frustrating part of this business ("Timing Belt Myth" is a good example)
Hey, I've got it! "Rifledriver's Pre-owned Timing Belts" Every day scores of perfectly good timing belts are replaced. It is common knowledge these belts have thousands of miles and decades of life left in them. Get a gently used timing belt from Rifledriver for a fraction of the cost of a new one. Buy two and save even more. Satisfaction guaranteed!
