The Timing Belt Myth?

heres my engine on the 7th yr with the belts about to comeoff.

See the casket leak?

I guess the belts might be good, but the damn engine looked so dirty i had to pull it out...lol Im just gonna wash it and put it back in...lol
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what would y'all do....purchased car 10/06 and everything seems to be going OK except for small oil leak(not leaking on belts)

the following is a receipt from the supposed last service done 09/04. would you wait until 09/07 to get the full service or go ahead and get it done now? guess it's only 6mos early but if you look at it another way, it's only 2.5 yrs after it's last major service done 7500 miles ago

Or would you wait another yr or so? Not looking to pinch pennies, but not looking to throwing it away either. this service is affordable for me so don't start ranting & raving about this & that. i'm here for genuine advice as i'm not as "seasoned" about ferraris as some others here. just looking to learn and make educated choices
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...as long as you don;t wash it and put it back in....LOL!

As noted 3 years is Tech Bulletin FNA approved....

I say 3 -5 is on you...... if it lets go, no crying.......


...and as is often posted "gee this one ran 'insert number here'.".still looked new!


Those folks have dodged a bullet, aimed right at the wallet!


8.......10.........12..............20.....22

I've seen all those numbers used in the description.....

Any way, check with a Ferrari Specialist near you..........you know the Guy You Trust.....if you can't find one of those, sell the car.....

 

Look closely at the great photo...the oil is on the engine, but the blackness inside the timing covers IS the old belts!

 

Wow. Those service records are interesting.

 

I'd wait. You haven't had the car long and other things will come up. Get it all done at once.

 

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I think everyone gets the point - change it every 5 years.

So now comes the second part of this question...(and I knowingly open myself up to redicule, tar and feathering...

How much? How much should a basic engine-out service cost? But before you all jump on me, let me explain why I ask. Some will say 4, 5 or 6K. But then others will say, "if you know what you're doing, 3". To which the first group replies, "you get what you pay for".

OK, let the fun begin...

Oh, BTW...it's not really fair to shoot newbies (like me) down for not searching everything, when you guys take three pages to say something that takes 1/2. THere's just way too much text for anyone to read through...(you guys are really going to kill me now...)

 

i'm calling Norwoods tomorrow and will post what they charge for a major (belts, tensioner bearings, etc) on a 328

 

luigi...in the 308 Section it is not an engine out deal........

You yank out the inner fender and jump in there.......

Not 'engine out' until 348...355 ...

Now Excelsior Z who puts a 355 motor into his Mom's Fiat....that's a different deal........LOL!

 

God I love this belt crap...

Come on folks... this one was the *classic* post and run. Tristram has been around this board long enough to have seen at least 50 of these damned threads and the ensuing mayhem they always create. The only intention I see here is a troll. Darned if it didn't work too.

We now return you to your thread already in progress...

 

Tex: That's what I'm talking about...You say it doesn't require pulling the engine, but Miller Motors, Autosprt Designs and 2 other respected independants here in CT will tell you the right way is to pull it. All these other guys want 40 hrs to do the job, how many should it take doing it your way?

 

JRV used to cost about $1,200 total and he'd degree the cams at the same time, none of this "clamp and go"..

Not that there's anything wrong with that.....just runs better after putting them spot on...

Who is telling you 'engine out'???

Rifledriver care to comment?

They must be talking about a Full Service with valve adjust but even then it can be done without yanking it, I thought.......

 

Sure it's easier to do after removal, if you don't break the back glass!

Then you readjust all the throttle linkage, shift linkage, blah blah blah......

 

...and lets see; Get paid for 40 hours labor or a half day's labor. Hummmm.

 

My car has had two 30K services done. Neat trick with only 22K miles. One done by FoAtl and the other at Lake Forest Sports Cars in Chicago. Both are Ferrari dealers. Neither pulled the motor. Both list labor time as 40hr.

 

If you are talking about your Mondial Coupe it really is more work to take it out of the car. I have done many and I am sorry but your well respected dealers and independants alike are really only showing respect for their bank accounts and not particularly interested in your best interests. The Cabriolet is a coin toss but not the coupe. And that is for a full on major, what we are really talking about here is timing belt changes and the dealer network in their never ending need need for cash infusions have everyone talked into really believing that a belt change equates a major. It does not, and one in no way needs to lead to the other. Valve adjustments are done at 15k and majors are done at 30k. Belts are done at "X" years. If Ferrari wanted you to do a major at "X" years the books would have said so.

A belt job on your coupe is a slam dunk with the motor in the car.


People are up in arms about the frequency of belt changes because of the costs involved. Well you guys are your own worst enemies because you have let yourselves collectively be bent over, over and over again. Find yourself someone who really understands what a successful business relationship is. That is one where both parties have their interests addressed, it is not defined as one who makes out and the other bent over.

 

Brian,

I was once told that it’s a good recommendation to do the cam seals at the same time as the timing belt service. It wasn’t necessarily recommended by the factory, but since so many of these cars sit so much of the time, the seal tend to dry out. So it was more of a recommendation that if you don’t do the seals when the motor is out, on 348s and Mondial t, then you could be faced with doing it all over again to take care of an oil leak.

I can understand how $3000 to $5000 hits are hard for folks to accept every three years on cars that you may have only driven 4K to 6K.

So what is the recommend interval for the cam seals?

 

348, and Mond t are very different (as you know) because the motor comes out to do a belt job. The amount of difference between a belt job and a major are not as big as a percentage of total cost as it is on many other models. On those I would exercise some judgement based on a particular situation. Cam seals were a problem on the early 308s and have been used as a sales tool ever since. The seals on the 348/t and for that matter the 308qv and 328 motors almost never leak. It is the cam seal housing O rings that leak and those can be replaced with the motor in the car. If I was doing a belt only job on a car that was being serviced in a timely fashion in every other way and there were no leaks I would not worry about the seals. On a full on major I do the seals.


Overall what I am saying is in many of the shops and most if not all the dealers it has become SOP to do a major for almost any reason, then they pile on a clutch, waterpump, brakes just because, every time. There really is no need for that much of the time other than sheer revenue enhancement and because of it it is understandable why so many fear bringing the car to the shop.

They are good cars, they really are and it won't turn to junk if you don't do a restoration every couple of years.

 

So Brian,

Would you recommend 5 years for the 348s and Mondial t or would you follow the TSB that says every 3 years.

I wouldn't think that many of these cars only get 2K to 3K a year are not really driven all that hard.

I would tend to think that people are so worried about the cost of fixing them that they don't push them like the cars were ment to be.

Heck in Califorina the roads are so bad that there are not that many that will allow you to drive these cars that way.

 

This thread and similar ones are i'm afraid talking me out of getting the car i've wanted since being a small boy.

I'm sure if those of you in the know say they need to be changed that frequently then they should be. My 300zx and BMW each went 200,000 miles without a belt or a timing chain change and the price of this service is in the 3-5k range then no thanks.

The new 350z with the new 19 inch wheels for $29,000(new) is reluctlantly gonna end up being my next car i think.

 

Thank you for saying that!

There are some basic things that must be done to keep your car running a long, long time. These things go with the territory, and should be budgeted for when you are in the market to buy. If those things are done, your F-Car is not a fragile, fainting waif.

How often should your belts be changed? Well, if you are a non-mechanic like me, you should change them exactly as often as your trusted, experienced technician tells you to. If you do have some level of mechanical expertise, same answer.

 

I don't know what model you were considering but in general Ferrari's have never been on par with a Japanese car as far as costs go. It would defy logic to think so. Many people of more ordinary means have been able to pull it off if they were capable and willing to do their own maintenance and repairs but even then it could be very expensive. We have a TR and if I was not in the business I would not consider having one. The new cars, at least 550, 575, 360 and now 430 cost less in adjusted dollars than any prior Ferrari to maintain so I do not think complaining about costs of the newer cars is justified. And before any one complains about the technology preventing owner service it is no bigger a barrier that 4 cams, 2 multipoint distributors and six carbs was to the average guy 40 years ago.

 

Do not let that happen!!!

The 350Z may be your next car - hey, it is a great machine! - but don't let stories like these keep you away from the Ferrari stable.

Think of the Ferrari like any thoroughbred - it takes a little more care than others, but it is worth it!