Desparate Times for Ferrari ???

Agree. Believe me, I wish I had a dedicated toll-free question line to Italy for my 328.

And, their old cars have a fanatical following. Good luck trying to pick up a Daytona or earlier car for less than the price of a house.

You can go buy any Aston Martin off the showroom floor, whereas the 430 Spider and the brand new 599 you have to be "on the list."

I'm sure Ferrari are just quaking in their Guccis...

 

Wait, we were all happy that you stirred things up.

 

Nicely said...AND I'd like to add, that if you exclude the profit made by porsche from SUV sales, then the picture of profit is more in favor of Ferrari, which, (I hope) will never relegate itself to making SUV's (at least, that's what one could infer from occasional comments by Montezemollo)!!.

Joe

 

The better way to go would be to have Maserati (or revive the "Dino" brand) make an SUV, if there is a grand demand for an Italian off-road vehicle.

 

My point exactly!! I was not comparing the history part of these cars or the heritage. In fact I was poking at the heritage of the Lambo, the problem is that the Lambo is getting a better rep these days than a Ferrari. Hence why I get asked why I didn't by a Lambo instead. Very sad - and at the end-of-the-day, it's not just the general publics fault (15 years ago they would have never said that), I lay a lot of blame on Ferrari.

Why provide the info for free - simple, to build on the "Cult of Ferrari". Keeping records and putting them into an electronic format that people can help themselves is so cheap it's not even a rounding error on their books. It's that simple.

 

That's why it is a perfect thing to put into an online database. Ferrari could do this very easily and very cheaply.

 

You would be wrong. There is an elitist attitude by them these days. I think it may also be pressure from larger corporate to generate more earnings and profits. Hence the higher production runs on the later cars.

 

You can sell higher production runs at higher prices when treating your customers worse?

 

How about an online database you could search yourself?

That is why this could really catch them off guard years later. They won't see the drop-off until it may be too late. Car buyers are generational and swing wildly. Look at the major car auctions like Barrett-Jackson, years ago it was all Ferrari and exotics, now it's all old American muscle cars.

If Ferrari does not make an impression on the 13-18 year olds of today, they will not have customers when those same people can afford to buy their cars. They rely on people like us to preach their cars for them, if we are all unhappy and stop buying them, then the next generation will likely be buying the cars we (or the younger crowd) buy, whatever they may be.

I am a great example of this. I was introduced to Ferraris when I was a kid by my uncle. When I got older I started buying my own. If he had been into something else I would probably have bought something else. I also have every 13-17 year old boys in my area wanting to take rides and coming over to look if the car is even in my driveway so I know the impact that has on the future potential buyers of these things.

I hope I don't get flammed for this, but I don't care about the races they win and have not watched a race ever. I'm sure a lot of you will think I'm odd, but everyone I know in my circles is the same way and they are or were buying NEW Ferraris not used ones.

If they are not "quaking in their Guccis..." when guys that have been NEW car buyers for 10 and 20 years are not buying them anymore, then we probably will not hear much about new Ferraris 15 years from now at all.

Having said all that, I'm sure they will get on the ball and get back to their roots. Their management is in shambles and they are going through a lot of transitions but I'm optimistic they will get back to greatness unless they get sold or Fiat puts to much pressure on them to start increasing production volumes.

 

Not for long

 

Right, so how long has Ferrari been successful at raising prices and production runs simultaneously?

 

Please see the second half of post #49.

 

It's not about you per se watching races (or not). While Ferrari Spa and FNA have faults, there are also some things that they do very, very well...quite worth your attention.

Where the racing factors in is in maintaining name recognition, prestige, and continuing a long heritage. You see, while you don't watch races...millions upon millions do...and the winners of those races influence to some degree the overall image of a brand.

Likewise, while you may or may not go to heritage/concours events, millions do...and again Ferrari is reinforcing its heritage/panache/cache by being there.

Participation in Ferrari's gentlemen races...for Ferrari owners only...likewise builds brand awareness, loyalty, panache, prestige, and name recognition.

Ferrari knows how to deal with a monied clientele, too. I've received Christmas cards, showroom invitations, Valentine's Day invitations, etc. from FNA. I've been invited (and attended) the unveiling of the 599...camera crews and all in tow.

And then there are the cars. The 599 is highly desireable. 2 year waiting lists for the 430.


You are making the same point that I've made time and again, that Ferrari needs to cultivate the next generation (I've also been a big proponent of Ferrari embracing new automotive technology such as carbon fiber wheels), but you are missing the other side of the equation...that Ferrari does some important things very well.

Ferrari doesn't have to be perfect, and Ferrari does have room to improve (technically, potential-customer-service wise, etc.).

Just keep in mind the balance. Ferrari is doing some things well, even though we can see a few areas that *could* be improved.

 

But the change has only occurred recently (a few years). Time will tell if this will hurt them down the road.

5 years ago, I started to hear a few complaints, now I hear complaints all the time. Takes time for this kind of problem to impact something like a Ferrari brand, but left unchecked it will.

 

Agree in the past i was hypnotized, though have now woken from that nightmare and now in reality. As for still buying product, absolutely not and same thing is happeneing with others i know. Of course some guys like me enjoy the older cars so there is little need to deal with FNA or Spa

Frankly, if they gave me a 430 i'd dump it ASAP for another marque while there are still suckers out there willing to waste $200+k on it.

 

I don't know if the comparison between muscle cars (basically the Dutch tulip phenomenon of the mid '00s...) and a marque like Ferrari is such a valid comparison. In fact Ferrari has proved for decades that it can deliver temperamental cars, at high prices, to selected wealthy clients. Furthermore, Ferrari didn't even bother to get its '80s flagship road car (Boxer) certified in the United States. It specifies service intervals, involving engine removal, that if specified by Lexus or Jaguar would have people fleeing the marque en masse. And it doesn't bother to show up to the Detroit Auto Show, one of the top shows in the States.

Point is, given that sordid history - and it is piss poor - of customer relations, there are still people queued up to pay well over sticker on F430 Spiders and the 599 GTB. The fickle and uninformed crowds at Barrett-Jackson are simply irrelevant.

I saw 1 or 2 Ferraris during my entire childhood in the Midwest, and 1 Lambo. We didn't have a dealership in the state. But every other month it seemed like Road & Track or Car & Driver or even Motor Trend, back when it was a good magazine, had a feature on some Italian exotic. It made them even more enticing to this former 13 year old. Then there was Magnum P.I., and Miami Vice... My neighbor's sons are early- to mid-teens and they're nuts about my 328, which was built before they were born. They're growing up now, in muscle car/heavy rice/Tokyo Drift society, and yet they somehow knew what a 'Ferrari' was.

Again, I'd say Ferrari not having a booth in Detroit was a stroke of brilliance. Porsche has the best booths anywhere, top notch service (at least at the dealer I took mine to), comprehensible pricing and cars that can match pretty much anything Ferrari can throw at them. Still, people are queued up for Ferraris. You can show up tomorrow and buy almost any Porsche off the dealer's lot.

Ferrari has never gone out of its way to nurture future customers. It plays hard to get. We've always played along, and unless Ferrari kills itself by overproducing cars or going downmarket I don't see that changing through anything short of the demise of the fuel combustion engine.

 

I see a funny analogy here:

1.) Woman: Treat them like "crap", be the bad boy who never returns calls, blows off dates, etc and you will never be lonely or wanting for a female companion. They will come to you.

2.) Ferrari: Treat your customers like crap, overcharge for everything, be the "badboy" of the automotive world, etc and Ferrai is never wanting for customers. They come to Ferrari!

Porsches, BMWs, etc. are like the good guys of the dating world, the ones who become doctors, lawyers and business men and are the ones the woman look for to marry and have the kid with. The kind of man (car) you "settle down with, when you (the woman) have had her fun. The Ferrari is like the bad boy who the girl goes to see and fool around with after the dinner with the nice guy. The Ferrari is like the bad boy she never takes on family outings, always *****es about to her girlfriends, but always wind up bedding.

That is why we buy Ferrari's. Because, in our hearts, we all want to be that bad boy!

 

some of these posts are very entertaining. i haven't been in the dating game for many decades but Impdesigner's post did bring back the old days. i owned a 328GTS in italy for several years[one of the great ego trips of all times] and after selling it was looking to by a 308 carburator car here in the USA. so many stories surfaced similar to many of these posts that i decided to build a replica of the 250 California. the rolling chassis won't get to me until september and i expect to take at least a year to finish it including many period parts and that wonderful Ferrari yellow[275 Daytona/250LM color which has taken me months to find]. but when it is done it will look!!!! and i will be able to drive it as much as i want and not wory about the mileage or the cost of a valve job. of courswe if i had a spare$2-3M in the bank for the real thing it might all be diferent. tongascrew george

 

NEVER again (and don't say "never say never," as i really mean NEVER again shall i buy an Ferrari). Too many politics and other stupidness that wastes my time and money. i can see why Jay leno does not bother with them...

 

Interesting. I always say that the only justifications for buying a Ferrari are because (1) you can, and (2) you want to.

Me? A Ferrari, particularly the F430 and the F360CS, is the closest that I have found to a four-wheeled motorcycle. Once you get behind the wheel and pitch the car into a corner, all the bs disappears.

Dale

 

Why such animosity? What specific event set you off?


For me, Ferraris are rolling art. Politics for such art would seem to me to be limited to buying one new.

Well, you can't buy a new Picaso. What, I'm never going to buy another Wyeth again? No more Russell's? Because of politics?!

So they're used. So they're not new...they're still desirable.

If you want one, go buy one. Frame it how you like it. Display as desired.

Is it a waste of time and money? Hardly. Not cheap to play, but there's always value in re-sale if need be.