Value of records(Service History)

A bit harsh aren't we?
Good luck getting a 100K for your TR.

 

Here is a prime example of a car that was thrown away and pissed on, with sketchy records, and questionable (to some, not me) pedigree. If I had the jing I wouldnt think twice about putting this car in my garage.

 

I am sure he meant canadian dollars.

 

Tom,

Why are you selling that beauty? Are you replacing it with another?

 

i agree. the most recent service is all that matters.


yes a "history" is nice, and shows overall care, but if the damn thing still runs and drives 30 years later and has had a recent belt service, the rest is just reading material.


cars that are driven on a weekly/daily basis are better cars than the receipt ridden garage queens that sit for months at a time.


4 308s,


all of them have been fun.

 

I meant to post a picture of Glickenhouses P3/P4, but apparently sometime today my subscription expired. Also, I have to many pictures in my upload file and I dont know how to delete them. At any rate, if thats not an example of a car with shoddy (to some, not me) history and records I dont know what is.

 

I think I am lucky as I have a complete service history going back to 1980. It truly is a really interesting read...

 

I agree with some of the other posters, if a car has a complete tool roll, jack kit and pouch with all contents on an older car I think that the owner loved the car. I do all the work on my car myself and even though I never plan to sell the car, ever, I have journal which I write even my most innermost thoughts, explain what I did to the car and when. Since I do almost all the service on the car except for like a recent radiator repair, I try to note in detail what I have done.

I am attaching a page of the diary and a copy of all the reciepts I have, mainly for parts, parts, parts!!!

I would buy a car with no records if I drove it and sniffed around it and felt good about it. I have seen so many Ferrari's that even though I am not an expert I feel like one!!! I would buy the most expensive car available at my budget and if I ever get to get another which is a dream (365 GTB4) I would probably start at Monterey where i started last time, which seemed to work out well!!!

JMHO
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View attachment Dino Ferrari Service#26E88C.pdf

 

I liked the one about the guy who had reciepts on a 400i. The entire exhaust system was replaced, twice, headers included, to the tune of some $6K each, within the first two years out of warrantee. Yet the last system has lasted over 20 years. lots of stuff gets done on cars when they are newer, and much of it is either not neccesary or isnt even done. Unsuspecting owners are taken for a ride because "they can afford it" and you get a nice wad of meaningless reciepts.

Do the reciepts tell you if the car was driven hard with a cold engine? Ran out of oil? Overheated? Oh my God no, those reciepts are mysteriously missing. So are the ones detailing the engine overhaul due to the cam belt stripping.

What would you guys do if you were offered a racing car? It has no odometer. It has no real reciepts. No, you buy it based on condition. No more, no less. Same as a boat. But I suppose there are different buyers and sellers of Ferrari as there are other things. Those looking for jewels, and those selling Cubit Zirconia with diamond pedigees. You dont always get what you pay for.

 

First of all we are talking ferrari, not toyota.

Invoice proves the car has been serviced. Is it worth more ? to me yes....that is the topic here. You are allowed to do as you wish as i am.

No argument here, but if someone is going to take that tye of undertaking surely they will have proof via invoices....so we are saying the same thing.
Who really cares what it was before resto....everyone knows before a resto it was a POS most likely.

 

It aint for sale, even if i got 125 US.

 

This has been a great thread so far. Lots of useful insight. Part of me was feeling like complete records were important to a Ferrari, and that the lack of records would hold the value down somewhat. Why I felt this way, I dunno.
The other part of me felt like only the most recent service and major service records were the MOST important and the rest would only be icing on the cake if the car checked out and passed the appropriate inspection(s).
Thanks for all the posts so far!!!

JIM

 

Receipts and past records history add to the value of the car, I don't care what anybody says.
Try buying a half million $ vintage Rolls Royce and see what receipts will do for you. On the flip side, try selling that same vintage Rolls Royce without anything but the ignition key, despite the condition, good luck with that sale.
Any exotic or vintage car owner not keeping books on his car will regret it down the line when it comes to resale.

 

Mechanically, I'm minimally experienced and capable. Good for engine and tranny oil change, spark plugs, exhaust/cat(just completed) and other minor services and repairs. That being said, am I correct in saying that belt changes and other major service items are only as important as the most recent one, not the frequency they've been done to date? Most if not all items done on a major are done to prevent catastrophic failure, not engine life long term, correct? Engine and tranny oil changes are important for engine and tranny longevity, yes, but is the frequency of belt changes important to the longevity of the engine?

In my opinion, the number of owners is an important to the value of the car as records, maybe more. The less changing of hands and criss-crossing the nation, the more valueable the car. I agree with Birdman and others that recent service is the most important but do feel that certain more minor maintenance is important to longevity. But, that being said, if it's a nice car overall, do you really think the oil wasn't changed regularly? IMHO, a one owner car with incomplete records and a frequent major with documentation on it from a known mechanic means a lot more than a stack of records from years prior.

Jeff

 

All,

Not to cross over to another thread but at one point owner servicing like I do was an issue with value and or lack of ser5vice reciepts. My car had 4 previous owners but the first 3 sold the car no reciepts. The last owner had some major services done at some of the top shops in the LA area. When I changed the clutch I found missing parts and parts that were not supposed to be there, and when I rebuilt the rear suspension half of the bushings were missing. I just want to make the point that some owner mechanics can do as good a job if not better as they have time on their hands to do it right. All professional mechanics are on the clock so to speak so they need to get the job done. I swear I can look at the engine compartment of a car and tell how it has been treated.

for example
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Over the years I have inspected a lot of cars for prospective buyers. Most just accept my thumbs up or down. I can usually tell within the first 5 minutes which it is going to be, the rest of the time I spend covering my butt.
The cars inspected have covered most of the value range for Ferrari.

On a modern car records are everthing. The cars are new enough that almost all will look the same after a couple of hours at a good detailer so the records are all you have to go by. Did he take it to Jiffy lube or did he take it to one of the good guys? Did it get serviced well, thouroughly and routinely? Are there records of looking after TSB'S etc? On a couple year old car that is probably all you are going to be able to go by to know if he was a good owner.

On a middle aged car like a TR I can tell in the first 5 minutes of looking around if this car has been loved or not and if it was looked after by someone who knew what they were doing. At that point besides doing the CYA stuff all I really need to see are the most recent invoices from the last major forward and any supporting documents to show diff upgrade, valve jobs, new clutches, trans rebuild and items like that. As was said several times before I really dont care about a belt change 10 years and 2 owners ago. And face it, if there was anything bad in there like replacing all the bearings because someone left a drian plug loose do you really think that invoice is going to be there?

On a vintage car we are going to look at everything and again just by looking a great deal can be told about the quality of the work that has been getting done. Im not looking at big stuff, I am looking at very small details, hidden things. Very little on those cars that has not been done at least once and if someone cared enough to perform a small detail in a hidden area perfectly, he cared about his work. Supporting documents of recent major work are important to see and review But if the car is old and valuable the more documents the merrier for the sake of preserving the cars history.

 

I think that was my exact point.

 

I agree. When I bought my 328, it came with the original tool/jack kit/manuals. I later learned a previous owner ('RacerX' on FChat) had actually hunted down a missing screwdriver from the first owner - it had been kept as a souvenir. He also sent me a written history of the car. Pretty cool.

Very true. It's too easy to rip pages out of the mystery novel for an older Ferrari.