Why are clutches on exotics replaced at such low mileages?

Define low mileage. I got 40K miles on the first clutch in my last 308, and 60K on the second one. And that included well over 5K track miles. But no drag racing, burnouts or speed shifting.

 

A previous owner of my 328 replaced the first clutch at 13K. I would attribute it to habits like riding the clutch at stoplights, poor rev-matching on downshifts and allowing excessive slip when launching the car from a dead stop.

 

2 simple answers:

1) Italian engineering +

2) a good deal of respect and admiration for dealers who need extra work and income to offset the low sales rates. Why else would the Italian exotics put low-life components like fragile clutches, timing belts, and a myriad of other parts in their cars?

 

+1 The driver is a big factor in clutch wear.

I've been driving Italian cars since the early '70s, and the only clutch I've ever replaced was the twin plate clutch on the GTV-6. (I couldn't stand the clutch feel, so I replaced it with a single plate clutch from a Milano.) My '79 Alfa still has its original clutch. I got 100K miles on the clutch on the Celica AllTrac over 15 years before I sold the car.

People have been losing EVO clutches as low as 3K miles on the clock. Mine is still good at 15K.

But then, every car I've owned in the last three and a half decades has been a stick. Practice makes perfect.

But there is another factor. The EVO has a hydraulic damper to slow down clutch engagement. It's intended to keep street racers from fragging the gearbox -- sidestepping the clutch isn't such a hot idea in an AWD with four sticky 235 width Yokos under the car: the tires don't spin, things break. So the EVO is rigged to sacrifice the clutch to save the gearbox. But that damper also makes it nearly impossible to shift smoothly.

On the other hand, the 328 has a *cable* operated clutch -- the driver has complete control of the clutch operation without any hydraulic "bounce" in between. So the driver can preserve the clutch, or kill it.

 

The clutches on exotics are small to reduce rotating mass. The motors in exotics are high-revving with not much low end torque, so you must slip the clutch a fair amount in order to leave a stop.
Combine those two with the human component of a bad driver and you have very short clutch life.

 

Considering all of the cars that are out there it is difficult to make a general statement that because you see a FEW people say they get 5 or 10 k on a clutch , that All exotics do. I have 54k on my orig. clutch and no sign of it giving up yet. I learned from the past that if you treat the clutch right it will last. When I was a kid with my 63 vette I would due a clutch every 6 months along with a set of tires. So live and learn.

 

The previous owner of my 355F1 seems to have smoked the clutch in 5k miles...

When I tell people it needs a clutch and it has 37k miles they're surprised it went already. HAHA! This will be the 3rd as far as I can tell from the records.

Those Evo's are well known for always blowing clutches, partly due to the drivers and partly design. I replaced the STi clutch at 22k miles, but that's because the stocker couldn't handle the higher torque from all the upgrades.

 

Many "exotics" are bought for toys.

Perhaps by those with funds but not sufficient experience with "peaky" engines.

One of the fastest drivers in my auto X ing experience used to tell me to just let the clutch out then hammer the throttle, not scream it and slide the clutch. That car was a highly competitive Karman Ghia, now he has a winning 928 P car.

My own father, who i love dearly love, slips the clutch at up hill stop lights - a berkley engineering graduate no less, driving a 73 euro 911.

Clutch life is a function of how much power gets transmited through slipage. Marvins Karman Ghia screamed, and his 928 too, with very high mileage on the clutches.

Minimize the time that the clutch slips and you will be rewarded with less wear and longer clutch life, regardless whether it is a Citroen or a Ferrari

Driver behavior is all.

hth,
chris

 

There's almost 97000 miles on my 328, and it's still on the original clutch with no sign of needing another one. Clutch wear is directly related to how the driver treats the car.

F1 trannies are a different story.

 

That's a lot of mileage, even if you double clutch downshifts and are an excellent driver. I would say something like 75,000 is more typical for really good drivers on high performance cars.

 

Clutches on The higher horsepower exotics are somewhat delicate but Hollywood gets some of the credit for short life. Remember the opening credits from Magnum PI with Selleck peeling out (in dirt) as the music is playing. Likewise for Miami Vice, Ferris Buehler, Gone in Sixty Seconds and practically every time an exotic car is seen in a show. Considering the size and compound of the tires that come on todays performance cars, "smoking the tires" isn't as easy as it was in the 70's on a set of Goodyear Polyglas G60/15 tires. The result is that you either burn up the clutch (if you're lucky) or something breaks (ever seen how skinny the input shaft is on a 348/355?).

If you drive sensibly (hammer the LOUD pedal only after the clutch is "hooked up") you should get reasonably long life.

 

17,000kms since i did the clutch, just checked it, looks like 75% left....lots of meat. I think in exotics, you get the lower usage becasue people like to shift the same as in there daily driver....which for the most part would be a no no...really can you imagine a TR in 5th gear cruising at 100kms on the highway. I think its directly in the way you treat them with the car...they go hand in hand.

 

I disagree with this statement. It's related to the driver and horsepower relative to the clutch(what it's intended to do). Original in mine at 45.5K(45K not me). I see with BMW's, Porsche's and with Ferrari's a big difference in clutch life. My 1975 911S had the original clutch for 100K until I sold it as well. IMHO, this statement is inaccurate.

Jeff

 

Don't think so. Just comes down to poor driver technique. I've had my dino and boxer for six years now and have not had to replace the clutch. I had an ALFA from new which I did 130000km before I sold it and never had to replace the clutch

 

... and the STis had a rash of blown gearboxes ... among a certain crowd. But they overdid the EVO's hydraulic damper -- it's a PITA that will almost certainly reduce clutch life, even without "street racer" starts. In either case, as you say, a large number of owners will mod the things enough to need new clutches just to handle the increased power.

Brian did have a good point, above, about the peaky turbo ricers needing more clutch slip to get off the line. If you let the clutch out without adding revs, you'll stall ricers much oftener than the Italian normal breathers that have a flatter power curve.

I found it interesting that rodent track got two signficantly different 0-60 times on two different STi tests: On the second (faster) run, the start line was dusty, so they could drop the clutch and get some wheel spin. On the cleaner line, they had to let the clutch out more slowly.

You have to learn to trust your boost, when pulling out from a stop into traffic with a turbo. If you rush it, you can glaze the clutch. The car barely moves as you get the clutch nailed down. Then, once the clutch is solid -- about the time the car closing on you thinks he's going to hit you -- you hammer the loud pedal and vanish.
(Remember the Enterprise entering hyperspace in Next Gen? If you rigged the boost gauge to control the intensity on the undercar neons, ... )

 

Clutch wear always comes down to the driver.
My 348 has had 4 twin plate clutches in the last 16 yrs and 38,000km. 3 of them were replaced with the engine out major/cam belt service. Nothing wrong with the clutch plates I can imagine. Clutch was last replaced in 2003 with major/cam belt service. I managed to break 6 of my clutch pressure plate diaphram fingers (somehow, still a mystery to me?) so I had to replace clutch in Jan 2006. The clutch plates still looked new from 2003, but were replaced anyways.

 

The reason is a clutchs in these cars plus Lotus are "dry" clutchs. Most if not almost all other cars have a oil bath clutch. This makes the clutch last longer and slip alittle fo the smoother take off from a dead stop.
This is one (but not all) of the reason a ferrari has such explosive accel up to 30 mph. The dry cluch graps very quickly.

Lee

 

206,000 miles on my BMW and still counting. I replaced the clutch in my Mondial at 45,000 with 25% wear remaining, but I doubt that it was original. I think clutch wear has a lot to do with 1. the driver 2. HP

 

I have never seen a car with a wet clutch.

Do you understand what a clutch is?

 

Why would shifting like their daily driver be a no-no? I drive at 100km in 5th all the time unless I am expecting to need to accelerate hard, again what is wrong with this?


Does anyone here know how a car works?


I used to demonstrate how torquey TR's were to prospective buyers when they were new by putting the car in 5th gear at 25mph at the base of a steep hill and accelerating all the way to the top. I can assure you, the car suffered no ill effects.

 

I wonder what planet you are on. I can't remember ever seeing a "wet" clutch on a car. Common on motorcycles but not cars.

 

I couldn't believe it either so I just let it go buy . Just remember not to buy from him.

 

Brian,

I feel for ya,

I think the " I'm not an expert, but I play one on the internet" contingency is alive and strong.

Possibly the poster has a water cooled 911, and has been told that the leaky rear main seal (RMS) was the wet clutch feature on the new porsches.