OK Finally a Real Enzo... | FerrariChat

OK Finally a Real Enzo...

Discussion in '288GTO/F40/F50/Enzo/LaFerrari' started by LV Eric, Feb 25, 2007.

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, Skimlinks, and others.

  1. LV Eric

    LV Eric Formula Junior

    Apr 1, 2006
    541
    LA & LV
    Full Name:
    eric
    Question.....

    Went out for a drive yesterday with some good friends, warmed the car up until she was ready to go, and drove from Beverly Hills up to the top of Bel Aire, When I got out of the car I could smell more clutch than I wanted too, I'd rather not smell it at all, the hills werent stt steep and a I only jumped on it once-not to hard. We drive down the hill and perhaps 10 miles to PCH to a fuel station and I got out to put fuel in the car and I could smell the clutch again. Couldnt feel it slipping.

    Got to our friends house in Malibu and they have a lovely home on the sand WOW makes the Enzo look ugly...nother story. anyways they have a sloped driveway I backed out of slowly weaving around a couple other cars(Veryon and something else) So I was going slow got to the gate and it rolled open thats when I SAW my clutch, well smoke comming from it, I drove the car home normally, I never really felt the clutch slip but i thought I did feel a stutter a couple times, probably my mind playing tricks on me,

    Question: does it need adjusted? get used to it thats how Enzo clutches are. Or is it something else?

    What a day, Jim we needed you there to round out the fleet of super cars. Your invited anytime and the house on the beach wow, I have a pic of the View on my camera phone I'll send it to someone to post. I would drive a Saturn to live in that house. I'm dumping my house in Vegas and getting a home like that.
     
  2. Napolis

    Napolis Three Time F1 World Champ
    Honorary Owner

    Oct 23, 2002
    32,118
    Full Name:
    Jim Glickenhaus
    Reversing is something Enzo clutch's don't like to do esp. slowly. Under normal driving you shouldn't smell it. I've have it looked at asap.

    Shuddering isn't a good sign.

    Best
     
  3. JH

    JH F1 Veteran

    Nov 14, 2002
    5,014
    Odense, Denmark
    Full Name:
    Jonas H.
    Eric, send it to me, and I'll post it here for everyone to see :)
    004529925661

    No Enzo expert or anything, but Jim is. So I reckon that his advise to have it checked is a rather good one :)
     
  4. Clubsport78

    Clubsport78 Formula 3

    Sep 7, 2005
    2,336
    D-Nbg
    Full Name:
    Marco A.
    Might be something related to race mode, or the "launch control" function? I mean, i don't know if that might be the real problem, but seems like another Enzo in the world has the same problem.
    The one i was behind yesterday in the evening, here in Rome: some smoke and the classic smell of burned/overheated clutch.
     
  5. Napolis

    Napolis Three Time F1 World Champ
    Honorary Owner

    Oct 23, 2002
    32,118
    Full Name:
    Jim Glickenhaus
    Hi

    I don't think so. I drive in race mode all the time without issue and have done hard launches without incident. I drive in stop and go traffic but always make sure to go to N unless I'm moving.

    Best
     
  6. ^@#&

    ^@#& F1 World Champ
    BANNED

    Feb 27, 2005
    12,091
    So could Eric's problem be a result of acclerated clutch wear due to the Enzo having a lot of torque? I know that people say to always flip the paddles and put the car in neutral when you are stopped. If Eric did not/does not do this, could it be the stress put on the clutch from a stand still going into motion?
     
  7. ELIM

    ELIM Formula 3

    Apr 29, 2005
    2,055
    OC, CA
    Full Name:
    Elliot
    Awesome gathering!
    http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=140590

     
  8. PAP 348

    PAP 348 Nine Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Dec 10, 2005
    99,174
    Mount Isa, Australia
    Full Name:
    Pap
  9. rafo

    rafo Karting

    Jun 6, 2005
    189
    CA
    I dont think putting in neutral will result in decreased wear of clutch. I have heard of this many times, but I dont understand how it wears the clutch to be in 1st gear with foot on brake. The throw out bearing, sure, of course, but the clutch? The clutch is fully disengaged when in 1st gear, stopped, and foot on brake. And the throw out bearing will easily outlive the clutch, so I dont ever go to N. At best, I feel I gain nothing. At worst, if i need to jump on the throttle, i am not in gear .. a safety issue.

    Now reverse is a different story. Years ago I drove up a hill in reverse. Steep 150' climb in reverse. Clutch was smoking very badly and I shut car down for 15 minutes for the smoke and smell to go away. It didnt seem to have a major impact since the clutch did last another 7-8k mi after that. But in reverse the clutch does not seem to fully engage, even with foot on brake. Something I always keep in mind.. when using reverse, make it quick.

    When taking off, the key is to quickly engage. Eric, practice quickly jabbing the throttle a very small amount (maybe 3-5% of throttle very quickly), this will usually get the car rolling and engage at 1000 rpm. Then slowly ease into the throttle.

    If you give it 20% throttle once you want to roll the F1 probably wont engage fully until 2500 rpm resulting in wear. I say drive it how you want to enjoy it ... I usually quickly jab, engage, and then get on the throttle -- I prefer this type of a clean/quiet take off and I get a lot of miles on my clutch
     
  10. Napolis

    Napolis Three Time F1 World Champ
    Honorary Owner

    Oct 23, 2002
    32,118
    Full Name:
    Jim Glickenhaus
    Eric

    Before following the above I'd read the Enzo's owners manual and follow the recommended procedures.

    Part of the above should definitely be avoided:

    "in reverse the clutch does not seem to fully engage, even with foot on brake"

    NEVER RIDE THE BRAKE WHILE REVERSING.

    The reason that one should go to N at stop, why in the Enzo if you don't what the computer will do are covered in manual.

    The Veryon you were riding with does not have these problems. It's two, wet clutch system is the best I've ever driven.

    If you engage Reverse in your Enzo, move off smoothly and don't ride the brake the clutch should not smoke. If it does something is wrong.

    If it smokes in normal driving something is wrong as well.

    If it smokes at slow speed in reverse or in traffic it's likely that you're not driving as the manual suggests you should in those situations. Don't coast/ride the brake while moving forward or while reversing slowly. Switch into N and then apply the brake when moving slowly in reverse or forward in stop and go. Go and then stop. The computer is not good at figuring out what you want the clutch to do when you're moving slowly touching the brake but not coming to a full stop and then giving it gas when in reverse.

    Best
     
  11. scooter48

    scooter48 Karting

    Apr 19, 2006
    81
    When you reverse hit the down paddle an extra time until you see a minus on the screen.This will allow you to reverse without putting extra stress on your clutch.
    Also you can adjust your PIS which alows more traction or grip off the line.
    If you are experiencing slippage it might already be to late. Pay attention to your shifting for the next 50 miles or so.
    If you notice slippage bring the car in for an adjustment you maybe lucky to save whats left of it.
    By the way you can throw the car onto the computer which should give you what the clutch wear is although it sometimes is not as accurate as one would expect.
    Good luck
     
  12. LV Eric

    LV Eric Formula Junior

    Apr 1, 2006
    541
    LA & LV
    Full Name:
    eric
    Jim,

    when i was in R going up the steep driveway i had no choice but to go slowly for alot of reasons, i knew it was bad, just not that bad, but I had no choice, if I didnt my car would still be there. :)

    yes my car was in race mode that day, thats the first time i ever had it in that mode, but i wasnt driving real hard, didnt even know about the launch mode.

    thinking back i think a 3 weeks ago after a run, maybe 20 miles. and i think i smelled a little bit of clurch then, but we were driving like idiots 143 in traffic, something i havent done in years, i dont know what the hell i was thinking, usually i drive too slow.


    what i'm going to do is take the car out and drive it 20 miles, easy never going over 4-5K on any shift, i'll keep most of them around 3k RPM's. get her nice and warm and go "{sniffing around" I'm also just before I park her get close to the redline if I dont smell anything the firat time and push it a bit to see if that creates any smell,

    i'm also going to pay strict attention to the feel of the car and see if there is any slip before it engages.

    Question 543: If there is some wear on the clutch its a 3500 mile car, is there any simple adjustments that could possibly be needed to get the clutch to engage before it rubs causing the friction, smoke, smell etc.

    cheers

    eric
     
  13. rossocorsa13

    rossocorsa13 F1 Rookie

    Jun 10, 2006
    2,557
    Nashville, Tennessee
    Full Name:
    M
    Jeez, when these people roll they roll deeeeeeeeeep. Pockets and car count.

    That's amazing.
     
  14. Napolis

    Napolis Three Time F1 World Champ
    Honorary Owner

    Oct 23, 2002
    32,118
    Full Name:
    Jim Glickenhaus
    Double tap flashing R and 1 is an older version of the softwear not used in the Enzo.

    Eric the reversing smoke I can understand but any smoke in normal driving needs to be looked at.

    On a hill I left foot brake. Keep your left foot on the brake. Put your right foot on the throttle. Come off the brake as you give it throttle. Wait until there is a gap so you can get up to a speed that fully engages the clutch. If traffic slows and stops shift to N before you touch the brakes and the clutch will not smoke while following slowly up a hill.

    Best
     
  15. AndySIBL

    AndySIBL Rookie

    Apr 8, 2004
    7
    Jim,

    Sorry to Hijack...

    Do you find it hard to adapt straight away if you've been driving your more recent models with paddle shift etc and then jumping into smothing a little more vintage?

    Cheers,

    Andy
     
  16. Napolis

    Napolis Three Time F1 World Champ
    Honorary Owner

    Oct 23, 2002
    32,118
    Full Name:
    Jim Glickenhaus
    It's an interesting question. Rt hand drive vs Lt hand drive, different boxes with different patterns, some with syncros, some with out, you do have to pay attention. Before I drive one of them I "preflight" them. Walk around. Sit for a bit, reach for controls and air shift them. The funny thing is that they all have a unique feel and like riding a bike it comes back to you once you turn the key and or push the button.

    Best
     
  17. LV Eric

    LV Eric Formula Junior

    Apr 1, 2006
    541
    LA & LV
    Full Name:
    eric
    Jim,

    thanks today or tomarrow, i'll follow your instructions and report back, thank you for the help, have a great weekend.


    eric
     
  18. djui5

    djui5 F1 Veteran

    Aug 9, 2006
    5,418
    Phoenix, Arizona
    #18 djui5, Mar 1, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  19. Erick

    Erick Formula Junior

    Jan 21, 2006
    400
    Altadena
    Full Name:
    Erick
    OMG! That is what I've been dreaming of for years, "paling" around with other supercar owners, correction...Uber Supercars and braiding traffic, just having fun with them, it's great to see you guys do that and thanks for sharing.
     
  20. scooter48

    scooter48 Karting

    Apr 19, 2006
    81
    Jim you might not know but the early Enzo's as well as the 575 had the minus R and Minus 1 in the software.
    If Eric has an early Enzo you might want to reconsider what you said.
    When the car is not in Race mode, in startup and you are backing the car up by putting the Car In the Minus R position you greatly reduce the wear of the clutch.
    The later Enzo's software changed and this is not an option,to bad because it really works.
    By the way you might ask how I know?
    I have an Early Enzo and my response is from experience which is always the best teacher.
    Also like I said check the PIS it can be adjusted.
     
  21. scooter48

    scooter48 Karting

    Apr 19, 2006
    81
    Yes Eric you Can adjust the Clutch.
    It's done on the Computer bring it in and have ferrari make the adjustment.
    While its on the computer they can tell clutch wear as well.
     
  22. Napolis

    Napolis Three Time F1 World Champ
    Honorary Owner

    Oct 23, 2002
    32,118
    Full Name:
    Jim Glickenhaus

    Scooter

    I had that software in my Maser and the newer software in my Enzo (P 4/5).

    Having used both software versions and the technique I described I've never had the clutch smoke with either. I agree that Eric should have it looked at/adjusted and I immediately suggested that he did. As an aside I didn't use R - in my Maser as I've never had a problem reversing or moving forward slowly using the technique I described but I did try it and noticed a slight difference. I must admit I could never get a straight answer as to why that part of the software was changed but I believe I was part of the reason it was.

    One day I encountered a glitch with the earlier software that could have ended badly. I started the car in N with my foot softly on the brake and suddenly the Maser shifted into R, the engine revved, I slammed forward against the belts and after a beat I stomped the brake and the car stalled hard. If I hadn't braked hard stalling the engine the car would have kept going hard even though I had pulled both paddles and the indicator said N.

    I had the car flatbeded to the dealer where FNA (Maser at the time) came by and we had a little talk. It seems that there is a hidden emergency circuit in the software. If you front in up to a wall and park and later start up and grab the R lever (Maser) and pull too hard up not back you can snap it off without engaging R. The emergency circuit allowed a tech to put the car in gear without the lever so he could get the car out of the space and onto a truck. It involved turning the key without starting a specific number of times within a specific period of time.

    The problem was that in my ecu a glitch caused this to happen entirely by itself and almost drove me into a wall in reverse. This was in 2002. They took and kept the ecu and put in a new one. One thing that changed was -R while it still lit up I could feel no difference at all between it and R and I tried to several times as I had felt a difference in the past. Whether or not there was some connection I couldn't get an answer too so that may have not been connected but the point is the computer IMO isn't as good as you in operating a clutch in slow reverse or forward and I still engage R crisply start to roll back and quickly grab N and coast repeating if necessary. I don't drive very slowly in gear 1 or R. The other thing I never forget is that computers and mechanical valves can glitch and when they do you want to grab the brake fast or push the rudder in the "wrong" direction as that one guy did in that 737 unlike the guys in the 737 who didn't...

    Best
     
  23. Townshend

    Townshend F1 Veteran
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    Jul 20, 2005
    6,672
    Chicago
    Full Name:
    Walter
    Appearantly didn't have the newer software of FChat, eh Jim? ;)
     
  24. Napolis

    Napolis Three Time F1 World Champ
    Honorary Owner

    Oct 23, 2002
    32,118
    Full Name:
    Jim Glickenhaus
    Software glitches get you every time...
     

Share This Page