Ok just to clarify for myself: A TRUE rifledriver-style major service on a 355 or a 348 costs more than 3K. Correct? JM
I understand, thats what I thought. It's OK to add 8K for an 8K service, but not OK to add 8K for a 3K service. But then it is confusing to call a 3K service a major service. More like a sergeant service. Jay
I am totally convinced that all majors are not created equal. I did mine a few months ago and it is just amazing what you find wrong, (or missing), once you get in there. I had cracked power steering hoses, 2 missing brass grommets that extend into the cylinders to syncho the throttle butterflys, and 2 dysfunctional O2 sensors. Although not required of a typical major, I swapped out all the power steering hoses, new spark plug wires, new CV boots, a new water pump, tensioners, 4 new O2 sensors, repainted the valve covers, AND put on new Tubi Headers. Once you're apart, you might as well do what needs to be done instead of having to go in again. If you truly care about your car, (and sanity), it's best to find an honest mechanic and keep the car where it's suppose to be. If money is an object, you shouldn't have the car in the garage. My 355 is an entirely different car since the service, sound and performance. -Bill
Okay, since there's so much confusion about what a major service is, how about detailing what parts are replaced, and what services are performed? I understand that anything else found will jack up the cost even more, but what are you guaranteed to get for 7k to 8k major service? Perhaps a new thread should be started since this isn't about belt services anymore.
I believe the OM calls for a cam belt change at 52,500 miles. The 30k service does not specifically call for a cam belt change.
About $1K of it. The rest of the service/parts is the most time consuming part of it and is where the monies at.
Well that pretty well expains it then. If something happens then it's do to poor advice from all of those rocket scientists out there who don't know what they're talking about. Yet it seems those that do know what they are talking about aren't willing to put it out there until they have had a chance to size up the client. A major service is a major service, and if anyone is going to know the difference in a 3k service versus an 8k service, then someone is going to have to step up to the plate and put it out there. If you don't want to put a price to it, then don't. At least let everyone know what a major service is. It's no wonder people feel cheated and cry foul! It's impossible to get a straight answer, and those that offer an honest opinion get flamed! By the way Rifledriver, I applaud your willingness to participate in the discussion and I do respect you opinions. I suspect most of the Ferrari mechanics out there will be running for cover.
What was inspected, what was serviced, and what parts were replaced. Was 6.5k for a major service? Or were there other items that had to be repaired while they were there? You don't have to name names or itemize the pricing, but if we're going to compare apples to apples, then we have to know what we are talking about.
Wow...the parts for my BB512i major were only around $2k! In fact, the major on my BB512i in Feb 2003 done at FoA was only $6.5K total and that included a water pump and radiator re-core...
Common guys, apples and oranges here. It isn't fair to compare prices when you don't know what parts were replaced and what services were performed. Also, you can't compare one model with another. They each have their own service requirements. So let's stick to the 348/355.
Brian cannot fairly tell what is typical for $7 or 8k since it inevitably varies for each car serviced. I suspect that there are some local variables that play into the total cost (rent, salaries, etc...), but for a bare bones 30k service Eugenio says something like $4500 for a 348, maybe Brian would be as low as $4k or as high as $6k, but it is not to 'rip people off' as some might think. He goes by the book for repairing things, takes no shortcuts, pays real mechanics real wages, pays workers comp, and for that you must pay also. He also stands behind his work and will likely help the customer if something goes wrong shortly after the service. Peole who feel cheated would be better served going to some mechanics home garage on the weekends and taking their chances... BT
I have to disagree. My question is strictly for the 348 or 355, so as per Ferrari, certain services are performed, certain items are inspected, and certain parts are replaced. Anything else found during those inspections will be over and above a major service. So let's not confuse those additional costs as part of a major service (which is what I suspect is happening). Hey, I don't fault anyone for making a decent living and fully understand that reputations, and different locations will affect the cost. But the statement has been made that not all majors are equal. Well, they SHOULD be if they are following Ferrari's guidelines! It shouldn't matter which shop you take your car to, the same work should have been performed or yes, you were cheated. So, let's take the mystery out of it and post exactly what a major service is.
Rifle, does the labor cost or hours to R&R the motor on a 355 vary so much that it should only be discussed at major service proposal time?? I wonder how many hours the dealer charges for the R&R of a 355 motor?
Warranty labor time for R+R of 355 is 22 hours. Standard flatrate methodology for a few year old car is to multiply warranty time by 1.25 to 1.5. In general Ferrari warranty times are very low so the dealers for the most part go by 1.5. A flat rate manual from Chiltons or Motors etc usually has that built into it. 33 hours at $150 comes to $4950 and the motor has not been touched yet. This does not reflect exactly my system but is representative of how it is done in the dealers. As to the items and costs of the balance of the service there are differences from place to place and area to area. For example Ferrari says to replace the A/C reciever drier. I never do. This is a dry area and I just don't see them go bad. The guys in the south east tell me they have nothing but trouble with them when they are not changed. I have customers that use their cars very gently and don't wear stuff out and others are the opposite. There are many variables. When I have a new client that wants a major I spend a bit of time asking questions about the cars service history and their usage. I often have them leave the car for a day or so to look over and drive before giving a price. I have also had people from here come by and spend an hour or so discussing the job only to have them hand me an invoice showing all the parts they bought at my price and were surprised that I would not discount the job equal to the retail price of the parts. People like that get shown the door. As for my prices I have gone into them in the past and just will not do it any more. I happen to be in one of the very most expensive automotive business operation environments in the country and there is always some idiot from Georgia or some such place that comes along calling us all thieves. The idiot(s) cannot get it through (his) their head(s) that when we operate in such conditions it costs a little more. Frankly it just isn't worth the bullshi t to satisfy someones curiosity. I am not the cheapest in the area nor do I desire to be. Even at that we are lucky to be in a position to turn work away. I could double the size of the company if I wanted to and could find the people to make it possible but they just do not exist.
Late to this thread..as a point of reference, I had my 355 engine out last year. Done by Ferrari dealer Miller in Greenwich..no shortcuts taken...total cost was about 6k and that was with a 15% winter discount... To echo what someone else said its amazing the little things that are discovered by the mechanics that know what they are doing when the engine is out. Anyone of these little things left unattended could have catastrophic consequences if not fixed/replaced. The 30k major is no time to skimp on a few dollars..
In regards to the 6.5k for my 348 all the standard items belt, tensioners, guide, seals etc. waterpump but no clutch (previously done). They did a couple other small things like re-gluing the heat shield material to the deck, tightened up the Optima battery in the housing (never could get it to fit right). I didn't total parts vs labor etc so maybe a bit high on previous estimate on parts but the total was inline with the estimate. The 6.5k did include them picking it up and returning it in an enclosed carrier and color pics of the engine out. MJB in Columbus,OH did the work and I was very pleased. Car was returned as clean as it left and when they said it would be. Just like anything else it just depends on what they find when they get in there. Mine is a low mile well sorted car with a lot of service history (no doubt why I paid so much I was embarrassed to post on those other threads). However the service cost seems about average $$ wise. Now if you really want to put it into perspective 6.5K on a high performance marine motor gets you the equivalent oil change and plugs...whole different level of paying to play.
Rifledriver...I know what your saying bro and can appreciate your position. My post is in regard to this car, in my state with it's history. Seems consistent with what you are saying. I do not want to infer, imply or express anything other than personal experience with this 348. Since purchasing this car 14 months ago I've put 13.5K in it wheels, tires, alignment/balancing, exhaust and the service. The majority because I felt the car lacked in it's factory stock state. To each there own and with anything performance you pay to play. Ferrari is not for the weak of wallet thats for sure.
Thanks for answering my question Rifle. I figured that there should be a "semi-standard" number of hours that go into just the R&R of the the motor only anything found or done "after" the R&R can vary greatly. Thanks again.
+1 This is the point I have been trying to get out to everyone. The problem with these threads is invariably the question is asked about cost. Someone will toss out a low cost, then someone will toss out a high cost. Then someone says "what the h@#!" and it goes into "did I get what I paid for?" Well, the simple answer to both is yes! It is NOT going to cost 6 to 8k to simply change a timing belt. However, any true quality shop like Rifledriver's will not simply change your belt and send you out the door. Their reputation is at stake everytime they do any kind of work on your car. If something completely unrelated to the work performed goes wrong, they will be the ones blamed for it. In this business, reputation is everything! So those that are able to find a shop that will simply replace the timing belt should get off relatively cheap and have a false sense of security. There are MANY things that can lead to engine failure, and shops like rifledriver's have seen all of them and therefore know what to look for to head off disaster. THAT is what you are paying for! These guys aren't just parts changers! However, I still think one of the Ferrari shops out there should post what you should get at a minimum if you take your 348/355 in for a major service. No pricing, no labor hours! Just post what services/inspections should be performed and what parts should be replaced at a minimum! This information will benefit both the customer and the shops, it is easier to deal with an informed customer than an ignorant one.
I'm not a shop/service owner but I know a few of them. The ones that are busy ie they do a good job so they get repeat business will do the following for the 30k or 3 to 5 year Major service. All Items marked with "R" in your 348/355 Owners book and: + Replace all Radiator related hoses + Replace Radiator Cap + Replace Radiator Thermostat + Replace/Rebuild the Water Pump + Replace/flush coolant + Replace Alternator and Power Steering belts + Replace/flush Brake fluid
