Massa down plays outpacing Kimi

Maybe he will break all of Schumacher's records while he is at it?

I don't get it. Massa has done nothing in the Ferrari that Irvine and Rubens did before him. Neither of them impressed in their post-Ferrari career. What makes you think that Massa is not being enormously flattered by his car?

As has been noted here by others, Massa has several serious weaknesses as a driver. Yet some of you, especially Ron here, seem to think this guy is potentially a greater driver than Kimi, let alone someone like Senna?!? Ridiculous.

Senna, Alonso and Kimi all beat every single teammate they ever had. Massa has NEVER outpaced his teammate, despite being paired with luminaries like Fisichella, Heidfeld, and JV...

At this level, drivers simply don't have the magnitude of improvement that you seem to think Massa has shown. They are very nearly at the top of their game when they arrive. Sure, they might be able to scratch out a second a lap or so over time, but going from a backmarker to your own teammate for several seasons in a row to beating the likes of Alonso and Kimi? I don't think so.

 

At least Irvine was fun to watch. Inside and outside the cockpit.

I think the current Massa obsession shown by some on here has little to do with the man's driving skills and much more with some romanticed idealistic view of the "blood lineage" at Ferrari: Disciple Massa has learned the F1 craft directly from THE MAN himself. Therefore he is worthy of carrying the scuderia insignia and the only logical choice for WDC. Whereas Kimi came from the outside world and hasn't been touched by the grace of HIM.

Like MS gave a damn about teaching his water carrier anything.

 

Not ridiculous. Those in the pits see it differently than you, and I would depend on their opinions more heavily than one of us (including me) amatuers on a distant forum. Read the Martin Brundle interview. His opinion is considered stellar in the F1 paddock. Even he thinks it possible that Felipe will be faster than Kimi inthe long run.

He stated that Massa has shown incredible improvement and could easily win the WDC. Deny reality all you want, but this kid has really improved. The serious weaknesses you mention have not appeared since the last 4-5 races. What is more ridiculous is to assume that such improvement can't happen. I remember many drivers in history that went on to become F1 WDC after wrecking more chassis in one season than Massa has ever driven in his career.

No matter what happens in this first race, until I see Massa make driver error mistakes time after time, for at least the first three races, I will disagree with you and believe what I hear from pit lane.

Wait, are you really Alonso with a fake avatar? :}

 

I agree with you about Irvine. But it appears you really do not know much about Schumacher's attitude and actions behind the scenes. He was quite the teacher. Right now, Ferrari is having trouble with a man that leaves the track and goes to a bar, instead of going home to his family. That will have an effect on the team.

An Italian team.

 

Ah yess, that's just what Verstappen, Irvine, Salo, Giovanardi, Badoer, Rossi, Barrichello, Gene and Burti said. MS, the selfless teacher, always keen on explaining them his setup and tire choices along with his racing strategy.
How could I forget?

PS: Since you're looking for trouble inside Ferrari, I give you a hint: Montezemolo wanted to get rid of Todt. He also got close to fire Nigel Stepney for critizicing that the Scuderia has become way too Italian. Personally I don't like the Italian duo managing the racing team. If anything that's where I spot trouble.

 

+1

 

Couldn't have said it better myself.
Schumucker wouldn't even sit at the same table as Massa during lunch.

 

+1!!!!!!!

Well said!

All this BS talk about how the "italian" team wants a wholesome man who cares for them and all that is just a bunch of crap. The suggestion that Massas pit stops will be fractionally faster because the team is more motivated to help him along is laughable.

Massa is no better a driver than many of the other mid-packers. He's the same level as Webber, Ralf, Coulthard, Trulli, et al. He is in what is by far the fastest car. Kimi has shown us brililance for years. Let's not forget how many times he put the car near or at the front only for us to see him stay out and show that he was running a FULL tank when others were around 1/3rd. Let's not forget time times he pushed and put a mediocre car on the front row or deep into the point at the end. JPM was a good team mate and Kimi outshone him handily.

Kimi is a better talent than Alonso, and quite close to what Michael was. Just because Massa has done well in practice means very little. This romantic notion that the team is willing him on and he's their MS replacement is dumb. He's a frickin driver. The team likely cares little who brings home the bacon as long as it's in a Ferrari. And let's not forget that we have rarely seen as kind words towards a competitor as we saw from MS towards Kimi. MS always considered Kimi his replacement and the man who would live up to his legacy - he never said it was gonna be Kimi AND Felipe.

The BS will be put to rest in the next month or two

 

count me in as well.

I hope this negative BS about Massa won't going on through the entire season. Every Ferrari-driver deserves our unconditional support. Of course one is free to critizise, but c'mon, it is getting very old very fast.

 

I'm still waiting to see whether it'll be Alonso or Kimi who has reliability problems.

 

I disagree, the Ferrari team deserves our support. Drivers come and go, especially the #2s. My loyalty is with the team and if a driver is unworthy of the drive, or if better drivers are out there, I will say so. Team managers can make mistkaes too, you know, especially if their sons are the driver's manager.

 

Who on pit road would mention Massa in the same breath as Senna? That is what I found ridiculous.

I put him in the same league as a Heidfeld or Trulli, both of whom could also win races in a Ferrari, and behind such drivers as Button or JPM, let alone considering him alongside a Kimi or Alonso.

I just checked my bank account. The answer, I'm afraid, is an emphatic no

 

I'm also very excited to see what happens tonight in practice.

I personally believe that neither driver will be SIGNIFICANTLY better than the other. I think that at the beginning, Massa will have the upper hand but that may transition partway through the season. Reguardless, i don't think you'll see either driver "wipe the floor" with the other one.
Just my .02

 

I'm anxious to see who will be topping the timesheets!!

 

Ah, the book written by MS' PR team. Thanks, but I stick with the "Michael Schumacher" biography, that was not officially approved by the MS Collection. Still a fascinating read and goes deep inside the man's head.

But nothing beats IMHO the best book about F1: "Live in the fast lane" which covers MS' first title with Benetton.

 

It's not negativity about Massa - it's people rejecting the overly enthusiastic and gushing positivity about Massa.

Massa is a nice guy. He is a good driver. He is a good team player. But just because he drives a Ferrari, is a nice guy, and has done well in testing (and testing is not any kind of real metric), does not mean we need to be putting this guy up on some kind of pedestal like he's filling Schumi's shoes, or that he's Senna reincarnate, or that he will have anything to show Kimi.

Wait and see - it will be proven out.

 

Nail; meet hammer.
One more thought. I think there is a lot of resentment towards Kimi as he is the one who "replaced" MS.
Who would dare !
Its not so much Pro Massa as Anti-Kimi hidden by team spirit.

 

+1

I have nothing against Massa, I just don't think he is the driver some of you make him out to be. He was no closer to MS than Irvine or Rubens before him and both of them were shown to be mediocre once out of the Ferrari. For all the raving about his performance in Brazil, there were many other races where he was completely out of his depth. I feel that his occasional good performances were the result of his being behind the wheel of a Ferrari and not reflective of his skills as a driver. I have seen nothing from Massa to impress me that he is anything but a midlevel driver, temporarily elevated by his car, as were the #2s before him.

For all the rhetoric coming from Ferrari about him being potentially a #1 driver, one can't help but notice the salary differential between he and Kimi. On that basis, it is difficult to accept that Ferrari in private considers him to be anything but a #2 driver.

 

If you read the recent interview with Jean Todt (the one I scanned and posted in another thread) you notice, that he doesn't even include Massa in the top 3 drivers of F1. That tells it all what Ferrari thinks.

One thing the Massa supporter also tend to ignore is the fact, that the man had basically free reign last year: He could drive his heart out for the team with no consequences: If he wins, great, if he DNFs, no big deal, since his championship wasn't on the line. Also he didn't have to worry about loosing/keeping his seat: He would have lost it anyway, had MS stayed on and vice versa.

Compare this to Kimi, who has battled for the title till the very last race. He has shown nerves of steel. He has also shown mistakes, no doubt. But the point is, that he has been racing under pressure, immense pressure. Massa never had that situation. It'll be interesting to see how he does this year when the kitchen starts to heat up.

 

And Massa drives for which team exactly?

 

Indeed and my biggest concern is that it takes the fun away of reading and posting in the F1-concerning threads.

Each and every time the usual suspects feel the need to play down everything Massa is doing and/or saying with no other apparent other point then to repeat a statement that has been made time and time before.

 

Yes it is negativity about Massa and no there aren´t people who are overly enthusiastic en gushing positivity about Massa. If there are, please point them out and the posts which make you think they overestimate Massa.

There are only people who feel Massa has done well in 2006 and there are people who believe Massa has improved immensly in the last couple of years. Yes, there are also people who believe the new and improved Massa has a decent shot at the title this year and you won´t find these people only on Fchat, but also in the F1-paddock itself.