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Pruis vs Hummer which is more eco-friendly: surprise!

Discussion in 'Other Off Topic Forum' started by Steve R, Mar 16, 2007.

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  1. Steve R

    Steve R F1 Rookie
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    #1 Steve R, Mar 16, 2007
    Snagged from some news print:

    The Toyota Prius has become the flagship car for those in our society so environmentally conscious that they are willing to spend a premium to show the world how much they care. Unfortunately for them, their ultimate ‘green car’ is the source of some of the worst pollution in North America; it takes more combined energy per Prius to produce than a Hummer.


    Before we delve into the seedy underworld of hybrids, you must first understand how a hybrid works. For this, we will use the most popular hybrid on the market, the Toyota Prius.


    The Prius is powered by not one, but two engines: a standard 76 horsepower, 1.5-liter gas engine found in most cars today and a battery- powered engine that deals out 67 horsepower and a whooping 295ft/lbs of torque, below 2000 revolutions per minute. Essentially, the Toyota Synergy Drive system, as it is so called, propels the car from a dead stop to up to 30mph. This is where the largest percent of gas is consumed. As any physics major can tell you, it takes more energy to get an object moving than to keep it moving. The battery is recharged through the braking system, as well as when the gasoline engine takes over anywhere north of 30mph. It seems like a great energy efficient and environmentally sound car, right?


    You would be right if you went by the old government EPA estimates, which netted the Prius an incredible 60 miles per gallon in the city and 51 miles per gallon on the highway. Unfortunately for Toyota, the government realized how unrealistic their EPA tests were, which consisted of highway speeds limited to 55mph and acceleration of only 3.3 mph per second. The new tests which affect all 2008 models give a much more realistic rating with highway speeds of 80mph and acceleration of 8mph per second. This has dropped the Prius’s EPA down by 25 percent to an average of 45mpg. This now puts the Toyota within spitting distance of cars like the Chevy Aveo, which costs less then half what the Prius costs.


    However, if that was the only issue with the Prius, I wouldn’t be writing this article. It gets much worse.


    Building a Toyota Prius causes more environmental damage than a Hummer that is on the road for three times longer than a Prius. As already noted, the Prius is partly driven by a battery which contains nickel. The nickel is mined and smelted at a plant in Sudbury, Ontario. This plant has caused so much environmental damage to the surrounding environment that NASA has used the ‘dead zone’ around the plant to test moon rovers. The area around the plant is devoid of any life for miles.


    The plant is the source of all the nickel found in a Prius’ battery and Toyota purchases 1,000 tons annually. Dubbed the Superstack, the plague-factory has spread sulfur dioxide across northern Ontario, becoming every environmentalist’s nightmare.


    “The acid rain around Sudbury was so bad it destroyed all the plants and the soil slid down off the hillside,” said Canadian Greenpeace energy-coordinator David Martin during an interview with Mail, a British-based newspaper.


    All of this would be bad enough in and of itself; however, the journey to make a hybrid doesn’t end there. The nickel produced by this disastrous plant is shipped via massive container ship to the largest nickel refinery in Europe. From there, the nickel hops over to China to produce ‘nickel foam.’ From there, it goes to Japan. Finally, the completed batteries are shipped to the United States, finalizing the around-the-world trip required to produce a single Prius battery. Are these not sounding less and less like environmentally sound cars and more like a farce?


    Wait, I haven’t even got to the best part yet.


    When you pool together all the combined energy it takes to drive and build a Toyota Prius, the flagship car of energy fanatics, it takes almost 50 percent more energy than a Hummer - the Prius’s arch nemesis.


    Through a study by CNW Marketing called “Dust to Dust,” the total combined energy is taken from all the electrical, fuel, transportation, materials (metal, plastic, etc) and hundreds of other factors over the expected lifetime of a vehicle. The Prius costs an average of $3.25 per mile driven over a lifetime of 100,000 miles - the expected lifespan of the Hybrid.


    The Hummer, on the other hand, costs a more fiscal $1.95 per mile to put on the road over an expected lifetime of 300,000 miles. That means the Hummer will last three times longer than a Prius and use less combined energy doing it.


    So, if you are really an environmentalist - ditch the Prius. Instead, buy one of the most economical cars available - a Toyota Scion xB. The Scion only costs a paltry $0.48 per mile to put on the road. If you are still obsessed over gas mileage - buy a Chevy Aveo and fix that lead foot.


    One last fun fact for you: it takes five years to offset the premium price of a Prius. Meaning, you have to wait 60 months to save any money over a non-hybrid car because of lower gas expenses.
     
  2. RacerX_GTO

    RacerX_GTO F1 World Champ
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    #2 RacerX_GTO, Mar 16, 2007
    That is a good read! It's just further proof that all of these 'happy' 'feel good' environmental ideas create more problems that few people anticipate.
     
  3. CornersWell

    CornersWell F1 Rookie

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    #3 CornersWell, Mar 16, 2007
    Go figure! Ironic, if true.

    CW
     
  4. djui5

    djui5 F1 Veteran

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    #4 djui5, Mar 16, 2007
    WOW!
     
  5. LetsJet

    LetsJet F1 Veteran
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    #5 LetsJet, Mar 16, 2007
    This was so obvious to me and I would always explain this to anyone who would listen. I also didn't see in the article about the hazardous waste and the costs when these batteries need to be replaced.
     
  6. UroTrash

    UroTrash Four Time F1 World Champ
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    #6 UroTrash, Mar 16, 2007
    If one is more interested in saving fuel and protecting the environment and not making a show of it, a 5 speed Civic Coupe has none of the drawbacks of the Prius (toxic waste from battery etc) and will give you 40.5mpg on the highway at a steady 70mph.

    I know because I did it a lot last summer.


    Actually that car had a cat-back free flow exhaust so I don't know if that helped the mileage.
     
  7. Steve R

    Steve R F1 Rookie
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    #7 Steve R, Mar 17, 2007
    HaPpY-HaPpY-JoY-jOy....

    I can't wait till I'm driving my Hummer next to a Prius and can yell at them about destroying the environment. I hate those cars, besides being fugly they get stuck in my grill. :)
     
  8. wingfeather

    wingfeather F1 Rookie

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    #8 wingfeather, Mar 17, 2007
    Steve R for President!

    Thanks for posting up the truth. Hybrids are a farce!

    Hopefully the Smart will take off in the states. Better looking than Civics. I hate Civics!
     
  9. DGS

    DGS Seven Time F1 World Champ
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    #9 DGS, Mar 17, 2007
    The funny part is that my GTV-6 used to get 30mpg on the highway, and scored about 30ppm HC and 0.0% CO on emissions tests. And it was 1000 lbs lighter than most "economy" cars today.

    Hybrids are designed to sit in gridlock -- with the engine off. So they don't show well on "MPG" ratings, because their best "mileage" is when they're not moving at all.
     
  10. PhilNotHill

    PhilNotHill Two Time F1 World Champ
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    #10 PhilNotHill, Mar 17, 2007
    Did you factor in the cost of replacing the Prius' batteries every 5 years for about $5,000?

    You may be able to visit the gas station less often, but a Prius will not help your bank balance.

    Moral: Don't buy a used one unless the batteries have already been replaced. :)
     
  11. ZINGARA 250GTL

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    #11 ZINGARA 250GTL, Mar 17, 2007
    Fascinating stuff! I do think there should be some sort of balance. Hybrid technology is still squirming to get it right. Usage is the key, in any case. If you search the data, you find that hybrids get worse mpg on the highway (teeny hp). Much better in the city. I'm retired. I do not drive in the city. I drive on the highway. Our E320 gets a documented 32mpg on the highway. I can live with that for now. My son, on the other hand, lives and works in the DC area, in the nastiest traffic in the US (according to Rand Mcnally). Hybrid makes sense for him. Balance.
     
  12. DGS

    DGS Seven Time F1 World Champ
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    #12 DGS, Mar 17, 2007
    Werd!

    I'm lucky to get 100 miles on a 12 gal tank in my 2L EVO around here.

    But that's because the traffic lights stay red for a full 10 minutes -- long enough to collect half the county into one gridlock pack. And the lights are synchronized so you wind up stopping for just about every single one.

    These roads aren't busy; they're massively mis-managed.

    (I actually saw an Arlington county study on the web that advised resetting the lights to accommodate the city busses --- including stops --- in order to make public transportation a more attractive alternative.)

    (There was a time when they didn't have to muck up traffic to get people to ride the metro -- but that was when I was young enough to not mind a half mile walk .... and when the women on the metro were a lot nicer to look at ... and a lot thinner. ;))

    But of course "political correctness" rarely relates to "correctness" -- you can ride the HOV lanes by yourself if you have a hybrid in NoVA (with the right approval stickers). (The "Official Stupidity Act"?)

    But the heck with the idiot "city planners" -- I still like driving my Ferrari. Even at a traffic light, that resonant V8 rumble is good for my digestion. :p

    ... oh yes -- and DC metro gives drivers licenses to just anybody, apparently.
    I think MA keeps sending the poster boy for term limits back to DC just to keep Teddy off of Boston roads. :D
     
  13. BLUROAD

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    #13 BLUROAD, Mar 17, 2007
    I have a reale estate appraiser friend that drives a Prius. He has an 06 with 60,000 miles on it already. The only advantage for him was he can drive in the car pool lane in Socal with just him in the car. Now if they would just sell the Bluetech E Class and allow those cars to drive in the car pool lane I would want one yesterday. I really want a bluetech.They get over 40 on the highway. Did I mention almost 400lbs foot of torque.JJ
     
  14. ski_bum

    ski_bum Formula 3

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    #14 ski_bum, Mar 18, 2007
    I believe the part in this story that hybrids are over-rated and damage the environment in different ways from combustable engines. Electric, wind, solar energy is non-polluting? HA! Manufacturing the technology is not.

    But....lies, damned lies, and statistics. I find fault with the math. Who came up with a lifespan of 100k Prius vs. 300k Hummer? How many cars actually make it to 300k? I'm willing to bet less then 5%, and I think that's too generous. If you do a 100k to 100k, the Hummer is probably at least $4.00/mile to operate.

    This is a free country, drive what you want and can afford. Just don't give me a holier than thou attitude of saving the environment, or whining when gas goes to $5.00/gal and you can't afford to fill up your SUV.
     
  15. MikeZ_NJ

    MikeZ_NJ Formula 3

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    #15 MikeZ_NJ, Mar 18, 2007
    Is everyone missing the glaring hole in this story where half of the argument is based on the manufacturing, yet there is no comparative data for the Hummer manufacturing process? I'm not saying that the conclusion would be different - I don't know either way - but it seems kind of ridiculous to take these numbers on faith based on a clearly one-sided argument. Every fact was supported comparatively except for the notion of the biggest polluter and expense.

    Just sayin' - seems fishy to me. :)

    ...and no I don't own a Hybrid or know anyone that does.
     
  16. Bryan

    Bryan Formula 3

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    #16 Bryan, Mar 18, 2007
  17. Rickenbach

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    #17 Rickenbach, Mar 19, 2007
  18. Lee in Texas

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    #18 Lee in Texas, Mar 20, 2007
    I'd want to verify all the data given before I spread that story. It sounds too much like propaganda.
     

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