Advice Please For Idiot Buyer!

I bought a 10,000-mile car in NY in October 2005 and took delivery of it on January 3, 2007 (I don't live in the US). Although I had a female friend (who knows how to judge cars) look at the Dino, I bought it essentially sight unseen, and ultimately based on cosmetics. The first time I saw it was when it was delivered on a flat-bed truck to my home. It looked and still looks great.

Because body condition and to a lesser extent interior cosmetics (dashboard, etc.) tend to be difficult to fix without going through disassembly, sometimes leading to total retoration, I have tended to place greater weight on those factors, rather than mechanicals. Looking back, I bought all my old cars only on that basis and this has worked out well for me, but this may be a question of where I live and sheer luck. If the car looks really good and has complete documentation, the tools and books, I would probably go for the car. Both the cars you mentioned are "low mileage." Best of luck.

 

http://www.ferraripacific.org/pastevents/Photo-Album/2004/2004-06-12%20Rafanelli%20Ride/2004_06_12_Rafanelli_3.jpg

Photo from driver's seat showing the perspective and bulges - during an FCA Pacific Region drive in the Wine Country, Calistoga, CA 2004 prior to the Monterey event.
Enjoy

 

Jim. I really have to disagree with this. Why be surprised by EXISTING PROBLEMS?? A PPI will reveal a lot of what's wrong RIGHT NOW with a car. Every seller (at least the ones I've dealt with) has had some hidden problems with their car that came to light in a PPI. I've used it to negotiate price several times. And sometimes even successfully.

A snapshot that can reveal a lot. My Dino PPI revealed $25K in problems, and that was used to re-negotiate the price.

I have a bone to pick with that too. Same reason. A skilled mechanic is going to find things you don't

Jim. I think your advice is grand if one has unlimited funds to spend on a mid-line collector Ferrari. Not getting a PPI in my case would have been a $25K mistake, and represented 40% of the asking price on the car. AND I BOUGHT THE CAR ANYWAY. But I knew what I was in for, and I made sure I had a budget I could support. But I also knocked the purchase price down by $20K, which I surely would not have been able to do without the PPI.

I think it's ok to take this position if you can afford to. Buying a 60's bathtub Porsche that needs work is an entirely different prospect than buying a Dino that needs work. I'd recommend a PPI EVERYTIME.

Dave

 

Dave - I respect all of your comments. My post was designed to raise the issue of reliance on the PPI. So often on F-Chat I read "...absolutely get a PPI and if it is not perfect, walk away..." Of course, I paraphrase, or perhaps exaggerate.

Given this philosophy, most would simply not purchase a car. There will be issues with all of these 30+year old cars.

Yes, I agree that items found on the PPI may be used for price negotiation, but if the seller refuses to budge the $5,000 recommended by the inspector, what then? This represents less than 5% of the purchase price on most of these cars. I have learned that if I want something, in my gut I appreciate the value or future value, as well as aesthetics, etc. To not purchase it for want of a few percentage points has always, in my experience, led to great frustration when I wake up the next morning, or 1 month down the road, and realize that my gut was feeling well that day, and now is upset.

I approach the purchase of these cars as the starting point, not the finish line. Hence, I anticipate the joy of tinkering and restoration. In truth, I have restored a number of cars myself, and know a good one when I drive it. However, I don't do a compression test, for example. Would I walk away from an otherwise good car because of low compression? No.

In summary, I find that most of the recommendations given to potential purchases concerning PPIs are counterproductive. There are not many of these cars found at your local used car dealer. They are few and far between. The PPI may steer one away from a marginal car, only to force the buyer to continue the search for another year. At that time, under today's inflationary trend, the car will cost more than the potential PPI-suggested fix, and one will have lost the joy of owning the car for the year.

Isn't controvery great!

Jim S.

 

Yeah he is good, so is
Johannes at Dino Motors in Burlingame
and Brian Crall in San Ramon

 

A PPI is always a good idea, even if to alert you to the several minor things that are worth doing when you take delivery.
I have to say that there will always be several reasons that will emerge in a PPI that will give you pause, but consider the fact that you are buying a car where the physical value of what you are getting is far outweighed by the emotional value of the car today and more so into the future.
Things like rarity, aesthetics, driving pleaure and simply ownership of such an iconic vehicle are all very subjective and are the reason that markets for these cars seem to be out of all proportion to what you are actually buying.

 

AGREE 100%. PPI is a guide, not the be all and end all. Especially on these old cars.

My PPI was pretty scary, but I bought anyway, guess that's the difference between a buyer and a shopper.

Agree. Don't think 5% on a $125K car should make or break a deal.

CONTROVERSY??? I don't see any controversy...

Dave M.

 

check your pm

 

Do you mean this one?
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Best Ferrari I own! ....... on second thought - Maybe best old Ferrari I own.

A couple of the new ones are a lot of fun but this one is the best looking one!
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If the car is in the South Bay of the SF area, call Juan at Gran Prix Motors in Campbell CA. He knows Dino's inside and out and restored the Dino that won the CI two years ago. I think that is a pretty good endorsement of Juan. He takes care of my Dino, fwiw.

Re getting a 360 instead... a 360 is a much more advanced piece of engineering, but it scarcely raises an eyebrow...they look to0 much like a 'vette. Now drive a Dino around town... the reaction is unmistakeable as the classic lines twist everyones neck around.

 

the driving experience is great. It's also slow. but the sound is fantastic... from the drivers side with the window open, the intake is right behind your left ear. It's alot of fun to gas the car and hear the six barrels of Mr Weber open up.

 

i think dave is correct about the ppi, it should be done and used for price negoatiation. however, a good car will not stay on the market at a great price. i bought two of my dino's sight unseen based on the basic ppi being done. i didn't get screwed on either of them. you just have to be careful and realise something will go wrong and it will require patience to put back right. that being said, i think this mindset applies for all ferrari's.

 

Just to add my own experiences,...my last four purchases from overseas based solely on e-mails and pics were all successful and w/o any major surprises. I am one of those easy to convince buyer. Actually, part of the enjoyment was this process of purchase. Here's one of those purchases 3 years ago. Jimmy
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Jimmy: At the risk of generalizing, why do the Japanese seem to favor the early "L" Dinos and early 365 Boxers? My tastes are the same but what is behind that cultural preferce in Japan?

BTW, what is the Serial # on your "L" series Dino? I haven't stopped drooling over your boxer photo yet either.

Please advise...Keith

 

Keith,

What are the Japanese comic books called, Manga?

If you get your hands on one you will see a "Japanese" "superman" with large blue eyes and much taller than his friends driving a early 206/246 blowing the doors off F40's and such.

 

Very cool - did not know that. How about the early Boxer?

 

Hi Keith: I can only speak for myself, but after sifting thru literatures and publications, my conclusion was either a 206GT or 246GT Tipo L. I chose Tipo L for the following reasons ...being the initial 246 models Tipo L (early ones at least) were still hand made. Only 81 were made in l969. Tipo M & E models may be more "refined" but were "mass produced" (if I may use this term). Tipo L was considered as the transitional model between 206 and the late 246 models. Thus, many of the L Types had same bumpers as 206 and many other similar features. Other features such as knock off wheels, less cluttered interior layout, passenger side foot rest, other details ad nauseum. One more reason is the limited production numbers of L Types. For same reasons, I am inclined toward early models maybe because I consider them to be more true in spirit to the original concept and design. This black Dino w/ red interior is a Tipo L #00508, a 1969 model and the 54th L model produced (if I did my math correct). It is nowhere near concourse condition but the car is very sound and I do drive it very often (civilized way, that is). As for the argument between a GT vs GTS model, if I were back in California, a GTS is great choice. Here in Japan, a GT is more popular partially due to the climate (four seasons) and also because people here consider the profile and lines are superior. As for the Euro vs US model, similar mentality that Euro model is more correct and true to the design concept of Pinninfarina. Due to the US regulations, US models got these unsightly side markers and other undesirable amenities. My reasoning is pretty much the same for my decision of liking 365GT4 BB over 512 BB & 512BBi. 365BB is the initial model, simple, pure and maybe unrefined but the ride is much more "raw" than the later models. You can't beat that rear view of 365BB with those exposed manifolds. Ferrari did improve the BBs along the way but increased weight, added amenities, and made the ride more comfortable and drivable. The three BBs are actually quite different in drive feel. I remember I read this feature article where a Japanese race driver test drove all three models in sequence and his conclusion and preference was the 365BB for similar reasons. Hope this helped a bit. w/ smiles Jimmy
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Oh it's so sweet... I own two other classic Ferraris but for sheer driving pleasure the Dino is the king. Diving into curves on a twisty mountain road, one after the other, feeling the grip and the exquisite balance... It all feels so creamy, elegant and feminine... Add to that your view of the exquisite curves of the bonnet, the gasp and hiss of the Webers, the clatter of the valves and the whining of the distribution chain, and delicious images come to mind: conducting a symphony orchestra, riding a perfect thoroughbred, or making love to the woman of your dreams.

Yes it's slow. But not that slow! Two situations come to mind, please allow me to describe them.

Ten miles from my house there is a small mountain pass called "Alto de los Tornos". When my best friend comes to visit, we take the Dino and the 330 GTC up the hill. The Dino will not keep up going up the pass, but the 330 GTC will not keep up going down. I usually drive the 330: Going up it pulls like the devil, but going down I sweat to follow the Dino and sometimes take too many risks, while my friend is having the time of his life.

Another day driving on country roads, I got a Porsche Cayenne with an agressive jerk flashing his lights behind me and trying to pass. I thought he was impolite and decided to not let him, but I just couldn't get away, and the turbo beast was going to eat me, when I saw the hills... The Porsche tried to follow and squealed into the first two curves before giving up. I never saw him again.

Don't get too hung up on PPI's. Buy a Dino and fix it and then drive it. A lot.

Cheers,

Julio

 

Very interesting. I agree with all your points. Does your L have more aluminum body parts than M and E's? I understand the first models after the 206 also had aluminum doors. Is your Dino lighter?

JUlio