Are these compression numbers scary? | FerrariChat

Are these compression numbers scary?

Discussion in '308/328' started by Badman, Apr 6, 2007.

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  1. Badman

    Badman Formula 3

    Mar 4, 2007
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    Bruce Wayne
    I'm currently looking at an '83 308QV and just had a PPI done. Lot of usual stuff came back: rear cam seal leaking, suspension bushings need replacing, A/C doesn't work, etc. None of that scared me too badly. But the compression & leak down test numbers look as follows:

    cylinder 1 - 100 (150 w/oil) 15% leakdown
    2 - 100 (140 w/oil) 15%
    3 - 100 (150 w/oil) 12%
    4 - 100 (150 w/oil) 12%
    5 - 125 (150 w/oil) 10%
    6 - 110 (150 w/oil) 15%
    7 - 110 (155 w/oil) 12%
    8 - 110 (150 w/oil) 12%

    Since the oil in the cylinder brought the compression up, I'd guess it's bad rings. But... should I run screaming from these results?
     
  2. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Three Time F1 World Champ

    Apr 29, 2004
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    We go through this every couple of days.

    What did your mechanic say?

    Was the test done with a hot motor?

    There are so many variables that really only the guy that did the test can put it in context and comment on it. If the person doing the test was not very experienced with Ferrari and does not feel comfortable or is incapable of making a judgement or if you do not have confidence in it and needed to come here you picked the wrong guy.

    If that was a cold motor, those are good numbers. If it was hot and the tests were done the way they really should be they are not.
     
  3. pippo

    pippo Formula 3

    Sep 25, 2005
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    Exactly...gotta done with hot engine. Now, how do you get those percentages , cuz, man, (scratching scalp), 140 on 100 is not 15% difference. Is it more like 40% off from the "non oil" test?Help.
     
  4. Badman

    Badman Formula 3

    Mar 4, 2007
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    I had the PPI done at Ferrari of Central New Jersey, and I'm working with Ferrari of New England to obtain the car. So I know I'll get good answers from them. I haven't yet talked to anybody yet, just got the fax on the PPI a bit ago. I just wanted to see what completely disinterested parties might have to say. Sounds like the answer is, it can't be answered by a disinterested third party.
     
  5. Ferraripilot

    Ferraripilot F1 World Champ
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    Be careful with Ferrari of NEw England. That is all I will say.
     
  6. Badman

    Badman Formula 3

    Mar 4, 2007
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    No, that's 15% leakage on the leak down test, not 15% difference between the compression tests.
     
  7. bpu699

    bpu699 F1 World Champ
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    You know, the longer I am on this board, the more I am starting to believe the advice LFSC gave me...

    "If you are buying a 355, or pre 70's car, get a leakdown. Anything else probably doesn't need one..."

    Seems like most of the leakdowns folks post on here end up meaning little, and rarely impact the purchase...

    One mans "crappy" leakdown is anothers "good" leakdown.

    Don't mean to be a heritic, but it seems to be the trend...
     
  8. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Three Time F1 World Champ

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    That was lousy advice, it just needs to be done by someone that knows how and can interpret the findings. Then he needs to communicate the information in a meaningful way to the client. If you did a bunch of medical tests on me and dumped raw information on me it would be meaningless. Likewise if there was no context or testing standards used or recorded they would be almost a worthless to another Physician to explain.

    If you are paying for a PPI you should get the whole job and not have to come here to get the other half as so many seem to need to do.
     
  9. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Three Time F1 World Champ

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    Unless you are holding back you recieved incomplete information. The written report should have much more.
     
  10. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Three Time F1 World Champ

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    Unless you are holding back you recieved incomplete information. The written report should have much more.

    In my opinion it should be a stand alone document.
     
  11. bpu699

    bpu699 F1 World Champ
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    Leakdowns are like cholesterol readings...depends what you want to believe. All other things being equal, a lower number is better :).

    10 years ago, an LDL (bad chol) of <160 was pretty good. Then, they recommeded <130. Then <100. Now, if you are diabetic or have heart disease, <70 is great. There are many variations on this. An ldl of 200 is almost irrelevant if you are 95 years old...if you have lived that long, who am I to throw you on meds now? Would probably cause more harm than good.

    Actually, this almost sounds like ferrari's belt change intervals :). Pretty soon, folks will need chol levels of zero.
     
  12. Badman

    Badman Formula 3

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    Sheesh, easy on me, please. I'm just asking questions. We all gotta be beginners at some point, right? The PPI document does have plenty more information, and now that I've talked to the guy who did the inspection he's indicated the reason there isn't any follow up info on the compression test is because it didn't concern him.
     
  13. Ferraripilot

    Ferraripilot F1 World Champ
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    what I riot! though I am not a physician, the trends outlined above sounda about right
     
  14. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Three Time F1 World Champ

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    You are talking about a science that is constantly evolving because of research constantly updating our understanding.

    Our understanding of compression and the importance of cylindersealing has not changed in 75 years.
     
  15. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Three Time F1 World Champ

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    I am not being critical of you. Quite the contrary. I am being critical of the fact that you paid for answers and still needed to come here to get them.
     
  16. Badman

    Badman Formula 3

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    Ok, fair enough. But I didn't come here because I needed an answer. I was already going to get an answer. Rather I came here to see if I got a different answer. I also called another Ferrari mechanic I know to see what he had to say (he wasn't terribly concerned about the compresson test numbers, but basically repeated what you said that it was hard to tell without having seen how the test was done). I'm just trying to get as much different input as possible.
     
  17. pad

    pad Formula 3

    Sep 30, 2004
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    On the assumption that the test was performed correctly, those numbers are rather poor. I have an 83 QV and compression is above 180 across the board. 2 years ago, when I saw compression drop to under 140 on one bank, I pulled the engine apart and found more problems than I had anticipated. The fact that all your compression # are very close, I personally would have the gauge verified. Leak down above 10%, to me, means teardown time. But again, this is based on the test being performed correctly. If you have any doubt at this point, have another test performed by another shop. There are several qualified shops in the northern NJ area.
     
  18. Badman

    Badman Formula 3

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    Who might you recommend?
     

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