Observations, not just because I have a GT4... >I would guess more people consider the 246 a classic than would say the >same about the 308 GT4. The 246 is obviously 1960s, but it gets a lot of >love. Obsolutely, the two cars are simply not comparable and represent nostalgia for quite different generations in my view. >The GT4 is the 1970s wedge, and may have its day, but 'wedge' and >'classic' don't seem to go together -- yet. Whilst I own a vintage curvy VW from the 50's so well appretiate the pre-angular designs, I feel the wedges of the '70's (apart from the TR6 - urgh) represent an era that the 30-40 year old now looks back on with some fondness - along with StarWars and ET I think the point is that all cars obviously become truly classic - I can't believe that Ford XR3's (for UK'ers) are approaching 30 years old! and have a big following. The GT4 is a strcking shape and in some ways more so than the 246 as it hints of some of the more wild lines of the countach. I don't know a '70's kid who didn't like the countach in CannonBall Run and I feel that I see this from faces on onlookers. I think the younger generations see the big 70's wedges as classics and the curvy 60's cars are almost museum pieces. I bought the GT4 because it was a wedge shaped Bertone car not particularly because it was a Ferrari. In some ways (inflated parts prices and ownership stigma) I wish it was a more obscure car such as the DeTomaso. I also think in some ways the the 308/328 GTS/GTB models are worth so much because they made enough of them such that they would be iconically recognised. I'm not comparing them with the VW bus, but that's what's happened in the VW scene - and sorry guys the rarer VW buses from the 50's now go for more than a perfect 328 GTS (check out www.thesamba.com) Just my bit : ) Lee '77 GT4 '57 VW bus
Using your own words against your arguement: Not quite fair comparing a 1957 VW bus to a 1987 328. Why don't you compare a 1950s TR to your VW bus, different story. Whilst I don't necessarily disagree with the points in your post about angles versus curves and 60's versus 70s (and for that matter 50s and 80s) cars, I just dont think a VW bus can be dragged into a comparison with a Ferrari unless you do a fair comparison. Sorry to be arguementative. James in Denver
I loved the Countach and had a crush on its drivers, but... Dean Martin and Sammy Davis Jr were not in a GT4 ;-)
Yeah bad wording probably - I wasn't trying to compare a bus with a ferrari more what happened in the bus scene, I think, is a reason for the non GT4 models being more popular these days. i.e. more were made, more sold and so people remember them more and when they can afford them, have one, thus keeping the prices boyant. Ultimately the non-GT4 models have probably dragged up the GT4 in general popularity recently. Not to mention the BBC's Top Gear special "lets thrash 3 70's supercars and take the p*** then they breakdown" - at least the GT4 beat the Lambo and Maserati. >I loved the Countach and had a crush on its drivers, but... Dean Martin and >Sammy Davis Jr were not in a GT4 ;-) Not sure if that's a good thing or a bad thing Actually I really liked Burt's flatnose Porsche at the start - but that's a different story. All in all, the GT4 is on the up and about time to. Funny though, I was never fond of the non-GT4 cars, but the more I get into my GT4 the more I'm liking an early 308 GT although it doesn't help either model when you read the 1st paragraph of the wikipedia entry... Lee
In fairness, there are very good alternatives if you don't want to spend too much wedge on your wedge. Image Unavailable, Please Login
Series 2 GT4's like mine should have "Ferrari" badges NOT "Dino" ones that the Series 1 cars had. I'm sure you knew this? Spot on. Seperate generations see cars in quite different ways. I too was doodling Countach type cars as a kid.... now I have a car also by Bertone which is nice'n'wedgy!! The tail lights are so alike. I recall the drivers of the black Countach in Canonball most vividly! p.s. I understand the VW example you used.
I have been lucky enough to have owned 1300 X1/9's for my entire 20 years of driving to date, and really the GT4 was the natural upgrade to an X1/9 once I could afford it. I was also suprised how familiar the GT4 felt when I first started driving it - apart from the power! and it also meant I could fix the door locks, boot release and not be detered by the electrics or other Italian/classic car diosyncrasies. Two back seats is also a great bonus when you have a baby! I love the metalic blue GT4's and my 1300 X19 was painted the same color Lee ' 77 GT4 Image Unavailable, Please Login
!? I thought you knew this too? Kind of a rediculASS statement don't you think. Give a thought of who made them and where they were made. Reguardless what badge was on them. Duh! DT
The question was about the "badge" genius.... re-read the previous comments and get off your high horse and don't call me an ASS!!! Who mentioned where they were made??? Duh!!!
Sorry, my bad! I was refering to bullfighters statement. I ment to state "I thought HE knew this too." Agreeing with you on this. Typo on my part. Duh! Cheers! DT
OK... non taken. These keyboards have a habit of mis-construding thoughts and opinions I'm afraid. Cheers Dino.
(**Redundant common knowledge statement on badging deleted here**) At least the intake manifold does not say "FIAT" on it like the, now $130,000, car it replaced...http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showpost.php?p=136307149&postcount=889
All part of history - I think anyone serious enough to buy a 246 is going to know the Fiat connection. My earlier comment about GT4 owners putting badges on the car wasn't meant to start a debate on which ones should have 'Ferrari' script versus 'Dino' script. And it's not about whether a GT4 is a 'real' Ferrari, because obviously it was made by Ferrari and sired the line that led to the 360/F430. It was a response to the post that said that the 308GT4 is instantly recognizable as a Ferrari. To us, of course it is. To the average 25 year old guy who doesn't even know about air-cooled Porsches or Alfa Romeos, I doubt it. It would be interesting to do a real study on this, in some shopping center parking lot in middle America. But I suspect the GT4 doesn't scream 'Ferrari' like a Testarossa or 308, and that accounts for part of its market value discount relative to the more iconic ones. (I've even had a few young (12-15 year old) kids ask me if the 328 was a Ferrari, and at age 15 there's an off chance they might have seen Magnum P.I. reruns.)
That's a fair point Jon, the GT4 being a Bertone design does deviate from the more flowing and traditional Pinninfarina curves. However, even the teenage to 25 year olds in this part of the UK recognise mine as a Ferrari..... perhaps it helps that it's red?
Alot of people just assume that if its a sports car that they don't recognize and it looks exotic, it must be a Ferrari! I've had a couple people ask me if the Lotus Elise is a Ferrari. Obviously NOT car people! JIM
Might be different in the States. I don't remember the GT4 as being much of a seller here, whereas the GTS/B were famous and popular. American tastes in Ferrari have always tended towards to the dramatic. So it could well be that a 25 year old American guy would have never seen a GT4 simply because there are precious few of them. Then the styling is a bit of a detour from the cars we saw in Magnum, Miami Vice and Sammy Hager music videos.
I agree that the stying is a bit of a departure, but to me its that deviation that generates the "vintage" look of the GT4 car, that the 308 GTB/GTS cannot....and that has a certain appeal to GT4 owners. GTB/GTS design seems more "modern", almost timeless design. Beautiful in its own right.
what a great thread, i have a GT4 and Urraco both in concourse condition, the Gt4 is a better point and shoot package, the Urraco a cruiser. Currently looking a glass car to add to the collection. The GT4 IMHO is a great little car that does what is was intended, to be driven hard and enjoyed, the body styling leads to a different mind set, i prefer the GT4 from certain angles and the Urraco at other angles. i think big tex is right we are not gonna see an 80K US Gt4 this side of 2050, but then given the rise in ferraris worldwide anything is possible and once the Chinese cotton on to the idea that they are worthy collectables then bingo the prices go nuts again
We haven't got a ton of GT4's here either. I believe 547 RHD were made, if anyone knows how many still in the UK... that would be interesting. I'd say the GT4 was "more" dramatic than a 246, being a less obvious curvy design. Nice pair with the Urraco too. What will also hold GT4 prices away from 246 and GTB/S numbers is the 2+2 layout.
comparo pics Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
That is a gorgeous X1/9 Lee. I've had a couple myself. The silver one in the pic was a tuned 1500 with twin 40 webbers, a hot cam and a sports exhaust - it was quicker than my 208 GT4!
Now that's what I call a collection! Great pair of Bertone cars there. Hmm, I made have to make space for a Urraco Lee
The Urraco looks pretty cool, BUT the stance of the GT/4 is better and I still think is a much better looking car. IMO. I'd have to see the interior and how it all is put together in person to really gauge the build quality between the two cars though. Not that this thread was all about this topic but it is interesting to see the two side by side though. Cheers! DT
