What's up with Mobil 1

Most that I can remember are regulated down to around 260 Max. Airplane engines are very conservative designs with lots of cooling area - they might have double the cubic inches that they have H.P.; also they seldom turn over about 2800 RPM. Those that are turbo are mostly to make up for altitude rather than to make more power on the ground. And remember that the air rapidly gets colder as you go up - I got to fly a very small two-seater with a real tight cowling that could go up to 300 or so on the ground, but it would settle right down when you got some altitude.

Note - I am talking about opposed aircooled general aviation here; big stuff like warbirds or racing engines are a breed apart...

 

Yea!.., a 15 year old article. I suppose its considered current for the offroader crowd.

What aircraft engines have to do with auto engines, I don't know. The only reason Lycoming and Continental continue to peddle these obsolete 50 year old designs is because they are "certified". The redline on these are 2800RPM?

If you actually bother to do research on oils, it's a given the real synthetics (GRP IV & V) do increase horsepower by a small amount. This is due to the lower pumping losses of their molecular uniformity and the ability to use lower weight oils.

AEHaas has written quite a lot about oils on this forum. Apparantly, you chose to ignore this and post old or irrelevant articles.

 

I kinda knew that about GA type aircraft. I am curious what a big round motor does. Those are about as high stress as it gets I think for AV motor bottom ends. Poor master rod has a big job.

 

I have been following this thread with a lot of interest because I have Mobil One in three of my cars, and all three came with factory stickers insisting on the use of Mobil One - Porsche 993, Vettes ZR1 and Z06. What is now left of the ZR1 sites also hint at the demise of Mobil One, many authorities there like Red Line. Most C4 Vettes did not even have an oil cooler - including the 330 hp LT-4! Like Rifledriver said, I think the synthetic was specified to protect you from high temperature breakdown more than anything else.

Now way way back in history when Mobil One first came out, there were all kind of urban legends over people "burning up main bearings in extended high speed runs on the autobahn" because this kind of oil was "too thin" to be "real oil".

I guess we got over most of that (or they engineered around it), but you guys are kind of making me nervous about my oil...if in fact they are relaxing the formulation standards.

 

Please note that the article is geared towards the VW & Porsche aircooled crowd. Those engines are a lot harder on oils than water cooled engines and the VWs also use flat tappet cams.

 

They are tried and proven designs, that's why they are used.

Reliability in a small aircraft engine is of greater concern than new and improved or high-tech.

 

Fuchs has many oils with little or no zinc, little or no boron and good oil reports:

http://www.opieoils.co.uk/performance_lubricants/fuchs.aspx
http://theoildrop.server101.com/forums/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=741244&an=0&page=11#Post741244
http://theoildrop.server101.com/forums/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=800855&an=0&page=6#Post800855

aehaas

 

This was discussed in the early days of BITOG, The early Mobil 1 circa mid 1970s had an inadequate additive pack. I don't recall if it was a boundry lubrication issue (ZDDP) or shearing down. Regardless, it was resolved 30 years ago.

 

We do? Even on the hottest day at the track the oil in the 308 reaches 240F (NHIS CC config slow track after 35 minute stint), whereas she usually sits around 210F at 'normal' track days (faster WGI and LRP with usualy 20 minute DE session).

Which Fcar regularly reaches 300F oil temp?

 

Modern V8's will peg a 340 gauge on the track. A 550 will too on a top speed run.

240??? A 355 will do that around town.

 

Man that's HOT

 

It's called horsepower.

At Bonneville we leave the line with 140 degree oil. After 5 miles we have 320 degree oil.

 

While some of you are looking at the aggregate oil temperture, many forget that the hottest place for oil to hang out is in the ring lands. I dont care if that article is 15 years old, 30 years old, or a week old. Nothing has changed. Piston to cylinder wall clearances, bearing oil clearances, camshaft loads and wear patterns are the same today as they were 80 years ago, or at any time. Rub two pieces of metal against each other and you have friction. Do it while having a high pressure explosion many times per second in an area with surface tempertures close to 500 degrees, and you are going to want a lubricant that will neither burn, nor allow parts to contact each other. That is why you need a 50 wieght or higher viscosity oil in a racing car or an airplane. I know someone tried to say Ferrari was running some 5W oil in F1 cars, but as far as I know they are still running 70 wieght. There was just an article a year or so back I read, in which they hooked a pony pump up to MS car to cycle heated oil into it before starting it, as the oil was to heavy to start it up cold.

Regarding an aircraft engine, other than the fact it is air cooled, its still a piston engine. And the same istresses that develop in a racing engine, are almost taken for granted in an airplane. Yes, they are large engines producing lower power, but they produce that power almost continuously. With a average full power output of a 308 at around 200 HP, how often is it actually producing that kind of power? Almost never. At highway speeds most any car is lucky to require 50 HP. Yet a Cessna 172 is producing 70-100% of its rated 150 HP for virtually its entire life. 20W50 motor oil is 20W50 motor oil is 20W50 motor oil. While some have different additives or no additives for different applications, its all the same viscosity stuff. If it works in a liquid cooled motorcycle and it works in an air cooled airplane, and if Ferrari recommends it in thier car, its good enough for me and it will work. And whether its dino or synthetic will make no difference at all in how long it will last IMHO.

 

OK guys, to separate fact from fiction (or 'friction' ) I *called* Mobil 1 tech support (800.662.4525). They told me that the Mobil 1 formulation regarding zinc and phosphorus was changed ONLY in their 20wt and 30wt products. I confirmed/clarified with them that it doesn't affect the 0w40, 10w40, 5w40 or 5w50 formulations which is what most of us here use! No changes to formulation at all there.

Don't worry, be happy...

 

See my last post... what you suggest is highly unlikely after all...

 

5w-40 and 5w-50? Never heard of those weights in Mobil 1.
Here are the available weights (USA) for standard Mobil 1:
http://www.mobil1.com/USA-English/MotorOil/Oils/Mobil_1.aspx

Here are the weights for Mobil 1 extended performance:
http://www.mobil1.com/USA-English/MotorOil/Oils/Mobil_1_Extended_Performance.aspx

Mobil claims the "extended performance" has "50% more SuperSyn"...what the hell is in that comprised of?

 

Ok, whatever... yet the Valvolene dino does make the engine much less noisy. Is it ok to say Mobil 1 0W-40 makes the engine bits more audible versus the Valvolene dino? Am just playing around with oils right now.

 

Unless some truck put the wrong stuff in the wrong tank? Wouldnt be the first time something was filled up with the wrong stuff.

 

Just a reminder, I was asking because I use it in a TRACK CAR twin turbo 2.0L V6 that's now getting an engine rebuild and there's a lot of evidence of high temperature oil even with a large finned sump and an oil cooler.

I ran 60W Redline for a while and then switched to Agip 20W60 synthetic
for most of my track time so synthetic is a must for me. The constructor helping me out with the engine ran the 50w Mobil One for years in all of the Porsches he builds for the track. He didn't see any reason why I couldn't run 50W as well. But, he's switched to Royal Purple. He uses their Race51 oil.

This is for race cars not street cars so most of you probably have no issues
unless you drive close to redline for 20 minutes at a time 5 times a day.

How the other formulations have changed is interesting but I'm using them in
a Sable a Suburban and an Infiniti. That's a much more pedestrian environment except possibly the Suburban in 100F weather towing a 7,000lb
race trailer.

 

Two points: First, airplane engines are in fact designed for the purpose of low weight per H.P. produced. They are also designed for low levels of internal stress specifically for the ideal of continued reliability. There is not a "cubic inch" rules limitation for them, hence they evolved big huge displacement for their rated H.P., in ways never dreamed of in racing cars since the 12 liter Fiat and Mercedes racers of the WW1 era. This in turn leads to more than adequate cooling and lubrication provisions, as well as enormous bearing surfaces compared to something like a Ferrari road or racing car. Airplane piston engines can go from something like 1200 to 1600 or more HOURS of continued use at near the rated H.P. and have done so successfully for decades. There is no piston racing engine that I know of that could make that claim.

Second: I vehemently disagree with the notion that "viscosity is viscosity". We are dealing with a complex set of rules and advanced chemical engineering here -- just as you cannot say that "all tires are black rubber".

Third: (OK, I said only two points, but I lied) - "dino" oil is not really squished from dead dinosaur guts. "Synthetic" oil is not really made in the kitchen replicators of the starship enterprise, either. It is just a terminology - the real value is in the care and skill with which the oil is either refined or formed through the manufacturing process. (and in the subtle chemistry of the additives, etc.) And the industry which makes this oil is rife with tautology - in almost direct proportion to the price of the oil itself. Remember Andy Granatelli and STP?

So, in the lack of further evidence, I am still going with what the manufacturers of my cars tell me to do - which is still going to be Mobil One in the proper grade for my ambient temperatures.

 

From the Mobil 1 FAQ on their website:

Why are you reintroducing Mobil 1 15W-50? Have there been any changes to the formulation, or is it identical to the previous product?

Mobil 1 15W-50 is being reintroduced based on popular demand. Mobil 1 15W-50 provides higher viscosity, designed to provide extra protection for performance vehicles and vehicles that operate in severe service, such as towing, hauling and racing. Additionally, Mobil 1 15W-50 contains higher levels of anti-wear (ZDDP or Zinc DialkylDithioPhosphate) that may be required for certain racing applications and camshaft designs. This is a new Mobil 1 15W-50 formulation and is not the same as the product that was marketed a few years ago.


So it looks like the 15W-50 is the only Mobil 1 that has higher levels of ZDDP, and all of the other viscosities have been reformulated.

 

Also from the Mobile One website:

I tried the website's oil recommendation questionaire: "What's the right oil for my car?"

I punched in all the requested data - 1985 Ferrari Mondial to be driven in +0 F degree weather and out of warrantee - to which the site replied":

"We regret there's a data gap...

The data available to us for the vehicle you selected is insufficient for us to make a product/viscosity match. For new model years, there may be a delay in receiving data for all makes/models. Please try again later."

So... apparently Mobile One isn't even going to venture a guess as to what version of their product is the modern day equivalent (or better) of AGIP Sint 2000 10w 50 per 1985 standards? I'm surprised that it didn't even recommend a "best guess", even considering the fact the question asking if the car was still in warrantee or not.

My guess is that it referenced the Ferrari oil specs, saw a 10w 50 blended synthetic oil listed and this is their way of saying "We ain't got none..."

 

Mobil One 15W-50. Only weight we've ever used. Even the Rotella engineers state that the 15W-50 Mobil One has identical concentrations of ZDDP (in ppm) to their best Rotella blend. Ali, I appreciate your research and your education of all things oil-related, but I'm following the path that has worked for me and others I respect in the Ferrari service, maintenance and repair business for decades. YMMV.

Steve, Brian is on the money. We've been tracking street Ferraris for nearly twenty-five years. The 2V injected cars and the first TR's were the first time I saw oil temps routinely in excess of 285 degrees! Scared the hell out of me, until I took the first one apart and there was no eveidence of temp-related damage. That's what made me start using synthetics. First Agip, then when I found out the Agip was a dino blend with a synthetics additive package, Mobil One. My t Coupe with a cooler and a thermostatically controlled fan reads 300 routinely at Southeast tracks during the summer. Heck, it reads 240 on my morning commute! Relax!

-Peter

 

Ok, am relaxed though did pick up a couple of gallons of Rotella 5W-40 this morning and returned a case of M1 0W-40. It's all good. Many thanks for the oil temp note, as did get to 240F BEFORE i uprated the radiator on a hot summer day at LRP. Think you know i DO expect temps to rise again once the supercharger is installed and am just trying to keep things in a good spot. In mid-summer can always go with M1 15W-50 because startup temps will not be below 50F. The PO used Amsoil Series 2000 20W50 and that stuff was impossible in the New England winter where 0W-30 works well. Ok, yes, color me anal yet i drive my car and changing the oil is a yawner for me and it is all good as when we did the oil pan baffle mod there was ZERO sludge or gunk. She was VERY clean

 

With good oil I really would not worry about 300. You might see it with a blower. Have seen that and a good bit more in a wide variety of motors with lots of running time at those temps with no problem whatsoever. Just choose a viscosity that still provides good pressure.