Why are Ferraris so much trouble ?

Great post!

 

i have a new point of view now that i've owned a few. i used to think they were troublesome cars. but now, i'm hesitant to buy other exotics because they may not match up to ferrari reliability. they are very reliable cars, you just need to maintain them.

john

 

All things Italian are expensive to maintain. You think that Ferrari's are expensive to maintain; try being married to an Italian woman!! I have been paying for maintenance since the day I got married and it is more expensive than the maintenance on my 348! Hands down!

 

Any high-performance machine is going to have some drawbacks in reliability.

Ferrari's are reliable cars though, they just suffer some abuse far more often than cars of less value. And when I say abuse, I'm not neccesarily talking about driving abuse. Too many owners buy their cars just because it's a "Ferrari" and let them sit around to collect dust. Any car that is built to drive at high rpm is going to get sick when it is driven like a Cadillac on Wall Street, or not driven at all.

As for the high maintenance costs, it's an Italian car, so naturally the parts are going to be more expensive since they are imported from Europe. And a lot of the high cost is also the labor. Ferrari's arn't built for easy maintaining obviously, so most jobs require a lot of labor time, which Ferrari dealers charge out the ass for. If you want cheaper maintenance costs, you can go to a reputable independant mechanic.

 

i have no problems when someone comes on the board and poses a coherent question, but when these types of threads come up/ get revived, it's mostly incoherent rambling. no logic in the matter. just plain ignorance...always the same 'why isn't a 200k car as reliable as my Evo/Honda/etc, etc...' often times, if these posters just take a second and THINK, they can answer their own questions without posting on F-chat. i don't have a problem with 'rants' either...but at least rant with some substance.. that way we all may stand a chance of getting 'something' out of reading...

 

The "Italian Full Employment Act" has something to do with the complexity and difficulty of maintenance on Italian cars. This unwritten law states that it is imperative that a car contain the most parts possible and require sufficient personal attention to employ the greatest number of people possible. Aesthetics are primary, considerations to efficiency and cost-effectiveness are secondary.

Don't confuse a Ferrari with transportation.

Don't expect the "hot stripper" to raise your kids.

 

I must admit I was concerned about owning a Ferrari from a cost and reliablity point of view before I owned one. I do not have much experience but my 360 that I owned for 3 years was perfect as has my F430 which I have only owned for 5 months. More importantly as I meet other Ferrari people and make freinds they seem to also have good experience with their cars. I have not had any problems, nothing with these cars. One may argue they are new and that is true.

I find these cars to be wonderful driving vehicles and fun to own. They are a little expensive to service but that you know that before you buy.

I am not really a Ferrari guy, just a car enthusists but I am very happy with Ferrari so far. The dealer has been wonderful to me so no compliants at all.
I would say the dealer has bent over backwards to treat me right.

As a small example the other day I drove one of my other supercars to the Ferrari dealer just to visit. I turn around and they have people washing my other non Ferrari car, detailing it of sorts. I have many examples of that type of attention to me as a person.

I have heard the older cars were horrible but I have no personal experience with that.

Lee

 

If I may be so bold. I have been turning wrenches since I cant remember when. Im 48, but I remember putting spaceship models together during the Mercury space program. My first car, when I was 15, was a 1966 Pontiac GTO. But before it came along I tried to get my hands on a Sunbeam Tiger and did a bit of work on it trying to make it run. I drug home a 58 Hemi Chrsler Imperial and my Dad had it towed away. I tried to buy a 1955 Chevy with two 4bbls and was told a big fat NO. I Owned a 1972 MGBGT before I turned 17. During my 16th year I really tore up a 69 Chrysler, blew up two big Pontiac motors, wrecked several transmissions, and wiped out about 15 clutches. And I fixed it all mostly by myself. Ive owned an Alfa, BMW, several Fiats, two or three Audi's, half a dozen MB, a dozen Saabs, at least that many Volvos, a handful of French cars, a dozen VW beetles and busses, a few Jap cars and more American V8 cars than I can remember. On top of that I have worked at shops or worked on my own and have wreched on just about everything including Jags save the big stuff.

IMPO, 99% of the things I have had to fix has been to undo someone else's mess. Some of the worst mechanical work I have seen has come from some of the best shops or dealerships. The jerk wrenching on the cars dont own the place and generally could care less about any car they work on. I have worked at many different shops, and they almost all invariably have a bad working attitude, and the general trend was to wave bye bye as a car left thier shop. When I was young I once watched a guy use a DA sander on an aluminum head to resurface it. I worked on a XKE once that had crude sheet metal plates screwed down with cheap sheet metal screws over cutouts some hack had cut in the rear floor with a torch to get to the brake pads. The car had only ever been to the Jag dealer its whole life, so we all knew who did it. There was a fellow that had a Ferrari 365 that had had two complete exhaust sytems put on the car within three years of its life by different owners. Yet that last system has lasted almost 30 years!

The point is, I have owned, driven and maintained cars that many would say are very troublesome. The MGB would probably rank very high up that list. Yet when I look back over almost 35 years of owning cars, it was one of the most reliable cars ive ever owned. It never failed to start and nothing ever broke in the almost 40K miles I put on it. I even drove it through a winter in Minnesota with sandbags in the back for traction. Thats a lot more than I could ever say for those Pontiacs and other American Iron, it was all really crap and was always trouble. I even had good luck with old Saabs. The Jags, All the things I EVER fixed on them, were all to correct another mans work. And both of these Ferrari 308's are really no different. Lack of service either by the owner, or unscrupulous mechanics, and shoddy mechanical work overall.

I am not a Ferrari expert, all I know about is these old 308's, and what ive read or heard from others about the other cars over my lifetime. Those who do thier own wrenching on these cars seem to have VERY good reliablity and good service. And like all the other cars ive owned, those who rely on someone else to fix them dont fare very well. So in the end, its not the car thats at fault, its the nut who worked on it last. Just because Big Al's auto service can make a small block Chevy run in a Jaguar, really doesnt mean he knows very much. If he knew very much he could have made that V-12 run like it was supposed to instead of ruining the car. You surely dont want that moron working on any Ferrari.

 

If you want to understand Ferrari, you need to understand the italians. There is no better place to begin than by reading "The Italians" by Luigi Barzini. Published long ago and just as true now as then.

 

Great Post!

 

Strange. I own both a Toyota Highlander and a Ferrari. Neither have been any trouble at all. My wife's Mercedes is a different story. Go figure.

 

A Ferrari is more "trouble" just like a sexy, high-end, exotic, unpredictable, high-performance SUPER-MODEL is more "trouble" (but oh so worth it.) So just live with it, ok pal?

If you want less trouble then get one of about a zillion practical Volvo station-wagons that clog our road-ways today....or that reliable, "low-maintenance", appreciative, "average-performance", average-looking girl who lives down the street.

 

In one reliability survey I saw in the last year, Mercedes ranked in the BOTTOM HALF of all the car brands. I was surprised, but my Toyota/Mercedes dealer said that Mercedes was not nearly as reliable as Toyota, but of course costs way more. I bought the Toyota.

 

The best things in life are usually alot of trouble.

 

I admire a car that requires the owner to know a little mechanical engineering to own it! Weeds out the annoying "iced out ebonics lease payment wannabes" & hence the likelihood of seeing a 355 on rhinestone encrusted spinners!

 

Ferrari cars are more complex than the average car on the road, (and I do not refer to the engine alone) their engines have more power per liter than most cars on the road, the production numbers of these cars, when compared to the rest, is minuscule. Consequently the budget for research and development of any new model is just a fraction of what the big auto makers can spend for their new models.
Yet, with every new Ferrari model there is some "cutting edge" technology that is derived from their racing experience.
It should come with no surprise that "glitches" happen and that more (expensive) maintenance is required.
Finally, like someone else has pointed out on this thread, there is the legacy of the dealer work or the work of some incompetent mechanic that at times creates problems instead of solving them.
Although this can happen with any car, cars that like Ferrari, that require more frequent maintenance are at higher risk of falling into incompetent hands.
The queens of reliability (Honda, Toyota and the likes) do not offer the same performance and feel when driven and that is the trade-off or the compromise that we have to consider when we make our choice on what to drive.
Just my 2 cents...

 

As much as I love ferraris and the way driving one makes me feel there is still a part of me that is disappointed with some of its short comings. My boxer (or any other one for that matter) is a ticking time bomb in my opinion and it shouldnt be. My 440-6 challenger wasnt, I could beat the crap out of that car and it would come back for more and more and never broke. it wasnt perfect and it lacked the ability a ferrari has but I was never concerned about breakage. My boxer on the other hand could puke a diff carrier tomorrow on my way to get an ice cream cone and them im down $10K in repairs with me doing the work. If that doesnt break then maybe a sodium filled valve will. Failures like these are unacceptable and should never slip through the design stages especially for a company that builds race proven parts. If those two potentially devastating issues werent part of boxer ownership it would be much more enjoyable. A 355 has a poor engine (manifolds and guides), a 348 is a turd apparently, a TR has the same gearbox issues - worse actually than the boxer. The 456 windows fail, etc.....the 308 is a great car though and reliable but lacks the power. I love my boxer but in the back of my mind there is always the possibility of a very expensive surprise that boils down to quality or the lack of it. Its the price one pays I suppose and I admit I get a lot of pleasure out of owning one, ill just keep my fingers crossed

 

Arrrrgh! Just thinking about that requires Alka-Seltzer. I agree.

 

The internet may give a different impression than reality with these cars, similar to watching the news everyday sensationalizing shootings and such gives the impression negative things happen to many, most post here in technical when they have problems no one typically posts and says I drove my car hard another time and nothing has happened mechanically.

Every time I take my 355 out I drive it hard redlining it many times with hard take offs getting wheelspin in 2nd at high rpm, thats the fun and the car comes back for more, its the most reliable sports car by far I have ever had I have done nothing to it than change the fluids much more reliable than my 328, a 930 and a Vette.

 

I have had my Euro 308QV for a little over a year. I have put on about 3000 miles with absolutely nothing breaking or nasty surprises. I have done a lot of work on the car but all the items that needed attention were preexisting. I have just changed the fluids and driven it hard regularly. The car easily passed California smog this week with no detuning required.

 

This is my experience also same cars. The Ferraris and Toyota Highlander have been perfect. My wifes new MB has had minor problems. Apples to apples base on these two date points, Kens & mine Ferrari is more reliable than MB.

MB FYI is rated #15th in the first five years of service for reliability by JD Power. BMW is #17. Porsche is #1, Lexus is #2 than beleive it or not GM products start coming in like Cadillacs, Buicks and such. Toyota and Honda do not make the top 10 list. If my memory serves me correctly GM had 3 maybe 4 cars in the top ten.

My Porsche 1999 911 CAb has been perfect also and I bought it new and have owned it since mid 1998.

Go figure.

Lee

 

My thoughts exactly.

Never leave home without the cell phone (and the number of the towing company you use) and never confuse a Ferrari (or any exotic "toy") with transportation.

 

I thought the 308 wires were overpriced. Dumb question, why not just reuse the boots and get aftermarket wires cut to length?

Joe

 

No reason to not do that. All the red coverings (328) slide off. I just rebuilt mine for a total cost of $40 and a few hours of work.



Oh, and I ran the thing ~200 miles today, no issues

 

No, just the expansion tank, and the radiator, and the power steering hose...