According to Keith Bluemel's book there were a total of: 7412 328s built 8844 348s built I'm surprised, I thought there would be way more 348s.
The 348s were being built after the market for these cars collapsed. 328s were in almost hysterical demand by speculators. The 348 had a good launch, IIRC, and then Ferrari was having to resort to special editions (SS, Competizione, Spider) to move the cars until they could get the 355 readied. The 348 also got bad press, but I wouldn't say that bad press alone would impair sales of a new Ferrari. But the numbers don't surprise me much.
Bullfighter, you know your Ferrari history. The 348 had the misfortune of bad timing. The worldwide recession in the early 90's hastened the collapse of the Ferrari speculator market. The later models sold well in various model renditions as you stated. Just think if you were 1 of the speculators that spent $1mil for an F40 only to see the value drop to $300k overnight!
hello, name calling aside, you have indeed made such statements; "THe 328gts and b are the highest Value retaining Ferraris ever built. meaning from there original MSRP they have never really gone down more than 35 to 40 percent of there original purchase price. " your post didn't indicate that you were only refering to modern production ferraris and not supercars such as the F40 and 288 GTO. also, since when has the number of book's read determine your creditability to discuss the topic? i did read everything you just said. plus the following; - ferrari 1947-1997 the official book, rizzoli publications, new york - original ferrari V8, keith bluemel - standard catalog of ferrari 1947-2003, mike covello - ultimate portfolio ferrari 328.348.mondial, brooklands books - ferrari road and racing, winston goodfellow - enthusiast color series - ferrari, dennis adler i know that's not 50 books, but i also know your origonal post here is incorrect. and i'm not the only one who noticed. kind regards, joseph
Look buddy You came out swinging first. What do I have to do to make my Point. Do I have to type in all caps? THIS IS THE 328,308,MODIAL SECTION!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!SO leave it alone already. I will repeat This was a quote from Keith Martins (Ferrari Buyers Guide) and it was regarding Modern Production Ferraris, Not Super cars or obvious rare collectibles. I have already received Numerous PMs congratulating me on Flaming you so Let it The F**K GO.
B.S. The Dino 246GT and GTS. Ferrari's first modern production car. Revolutionized Ferrari design by moving the engine to the middle of the car. Over 3500 total cars produced. I've wandered through tons of FMLs, looked at values through the years. Original purchase price in 1972 was about $15K. I never saw one listed that dipped below $8K (even for a wreck) in it's early days on FML as a used car. They topped out in the heyday at over $200K (well over in some cases), wandered back to the $40-60K range a few years ago, and are now again topping $100K for plain examples and $150K+ for very nice cars. Even adjusted for inflation, the list price today on a Dino would be around $60K+-, so.. which modern production Ferrari is holding its value best? And lighten up on the verbal abuse of other folks here. The mods frown on it. DM
Dave, beautiful 246! I thought the same thing regarding Ferrari values. Not only the 246 but the 512bb/512bbi, Daytona, early glass 308's etc. Talk about missed opportunities, my father bought an excellent 246 for $12.5k when they were just a used Ferrari/ Dino. Sold a couple of years later for $17k just as they started to climb. My wife loved the Dino and wanted me to buy it. Did I? No!
"I have already received Numerous PMs congratulating me on Flaming you so Let it The F**K GO." hello, you may have had numerous PM's congratulating you, but none of them took the time to "flame" me via f-chat. however, in post #50 bullfighter responded to you by saying "i think his response was correct" in post #56 desmomini advised you to "go away tedious fool" now JJ, you can claim you "own me" or that you've "flamed me" but in reality, you made a broad statement which you have since backtracked to include what you really meant to say. i'm not the one calling you names or using four-letter words in my responses. that said, i think you need to ask yourself who needs to let it go. kind regards, joseph
Dave, I have to believe that your car had set-up issues. Your opinion on 348 handling is not shared by most others that track their 348s. Not taking it personally, I don't even own one. I have driven one, but not on a track so I can't personally attest to the handling at the edge. Sorry you didn't like the 348, everyone is different. My "rant" is mostly related to the fact that whenever someone asks a question about the reliability or service costs of one model versus another, it invariably turns into a beauty or popularity contest. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, is unrelated to reliability, and cannot be debated because there is no right or wrong answer. And all you 328 owners that are telling yourselves that the 328 engine never has to come out....keep telling yourself that if it makes you feel better! Sooner or later, it will have to come out! Birdman
Sorry Birdman, no setup issues at all. At the 2000 national meet, I was on the track with a number of other 348's and I had no trouble overtaking all of them. (94's really ARE better than the others). I would like to tell you it was my superior skill, but that would be a lie. Sure you can modify them to racing specs, but that's not the point. Besides, I have seen 308's set up for track use only that had phenomenal performance. Those that tell you how well they handle have unlikely never had them on a track, especially with cars from other marques. I had red mist alter my thinking as well, but the first time I tracked mine, reality bit me hard. Dave Dave
I'm not sure that's a fair statement... I don't plan on pulling the engine for my 45k mi minor service (belts, seals, and tensioners, in 1.5 years or so), nor for the 60k major service (5 years down the road, belts, seals, + valve adjust). My major and minor service cost will be thousands of dollars less than it would be if I had to pull the engine. Maybe in 30 years when I'm retired and I decide to "restore" my 328 at 90k miles, yeah, I'll probably pull the engine then. Probably. The engine in / engine out is a tangible difference in the maintenance between these two cars that has a financial impact; one of the reasons TCO is demonstratably higher on 348 vs. 328. This is an objective point.
True....but that is because the engine is so much work to remove. On a 348 it isn't. You are definitely right that a 328 is cheaper to service than a 348. I'm not arguing with you on that, I'm just saying that it is likely that if you keep the 328 a while, at some point it may need to have the engine removed for service that can't be done in the car. Have you seen this thread? http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=147367 The 308 is just like the 328 in this regard, and I know a LOT of people pulling 308 engines right now! The cars are getting old, they need rebuilds. The engines have to come out for it. That's all I'm saying, not trying to start an argument. Birdman
328 motors can reliably be expected to go well over 100K without any rebuilds. The 2 valve 308 motors do not. QV's are known to go over 100K regularly, but some don't seem to make it (owner abuse?). There are many 100K cars that have never had the motor pulled. At the rate most people drive their cars, it will be decades for most to reach 100K or more. Dave
No worries, you're not stirrin' up anything major here. However, I would like to counter that the issue the gentleman is having above is certainly not an definite eventuality, i.e. guaranteed to happen. It is certainly the first such issue I have read about (short of any related issues to ruining an engine from running it without any coolant!). My stance is that for the 328, a knowledgeable owner having proper maintenance performed and avoiding doing stupid things (driving car with no oil or coolant or exceeding redline) will statistically not have a general need to pull the engine. Again, when I'm gray and 50, I'll do it for fun as part of a "restoration" at 120k miles (328s will be what, a good $150k by then??? ).
I've had a near-perfect 308 (which I loved), as well as a red 348, and this latest yellow one. Not that I care, but I can tell you, the 348 draws a crowd like nothing I've ever owned. To all of those that label the 348 design as boring, dated, "forgotten", un-inspiring, not up-to-snuff, whatever; I submit to you, Old Yeller: Image Unavailable, Please Login
In comparing the 'eventual' need/cost of an engine out service for a 328, vs. easy/cheaper(err, less expensive) for a 348, keep in mind that even if one does pull a 328 engine, one doesn't have to do this as part of regular servicing, just possibly once every many, many years/gobs of miles. Maintenance costs should be calculated using regular servicing procedures, and excluding very infrequent procedures. Btw, HuskerNtexas, that -was- you I saw turning into Westgate mall a few weekends ago...you turned right at B&N at the light, next to me(in a Camry, then). Nice sounds on the engine, Mon
I was told by not one but at least two different Ferrari mechanics that the 328 and 308 engines are very robust and if taken care of they should go 150,000 miles before a rebuild becomes necessary. This is still just what they told me and every engine is different in what oil was used, how they were driven, storage, etc .all factors in on how long the engine will last. I am not an expert so I dont recommend anything. However, my point of view is, drive and enjoy the car and rebuild the engine only if there is a need to.
348s are ****.88.5 and 89 328 gts are the only way to go in this comparison 355 would be 2nd choice but you need to get a 99 to avoid their common issues
in that it is the only streetlegal car of any kind that will redline in topgear including other Ferraris
