cayman s or 360???????

C&D 1986 Road Test Annual
Ferrrari 328
Power 260bhp
Weight 3090
Top Speed 153mph
0-60 5.6
0-100 15.1
70-0 204ft(!) Clearly, tires have moved on!
Price $64,393

Compare that with C&D August 2006 test
Cayman S
Power 295bhp
Weight 3122
Top Speed 166mph (Porsche quotes 171)
0-60 4.8
0-100 11.4
70-0 154ft (what's 50 feet among friends)
Price as tested $68,650

Like I said...you f-car guys sure like your prancing ponies (which I totally understand), but take the blinders off those ponies!

 

Hmmm, so the 20-years-newer car wins...

The brake numbers don't surprise me. My 328 will lock and fade all day if you're boy racer on the brake pedal. Even with Porterfield pads. In fact the acceleration and handling are stunningly out of whack with the tiny rotors.

However, you can fit 2007 tires to a 328, and I think that would help. In fact, whatever tires were used for 204-ft stops are now all dead and gone. We hope.

So, given one set of keys tomorrow: Would you rather be driving the Ferrari or the Porsche?

(While the original post was ludicrous, you could have quite a nice 328 for under $60K, so clearly the 328 and Cayman are hunting in the same wallet-space.)
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lol - Okay Bullfighter, don't act now like you weren't seriously suggesting the 328 was in the same performance arena as the Cayman S a few posts ago. I agree the conclusion is foregone (I believe I stated as much based on the relative ages), but a little while ago, the mood was quite different.

Yes, tires would certainly help, but we will never know quite how much.

More telling are the Ring times. Two seconds off the 360's pace on a track as long as the Ring says a lot. (But then again, _THE_ W.R. was piloting the Cayman...) Who knows what time he could post with LSD.

But I think my point is made, even if a bit of a surprisingly bitter pill to swallow...???

Ah, bench racing at its finest. lol

So now that we have moved PAST the...er....questionable supposition that the Cayman S was more akin a 328 than a 360...back to the original point...yes, a 360 is big ole heap more sexy than a Cayman S, and has already taken its depreciation hit. Unless...you want to put some serious miles on the car. Then I think the picture is a lot muddier. Suddenly a nice warranty, newer everything, serious mileage depreciation on the previously lightly used 360, etc becomes a very real consideration. But on pure sex appeal...360 hands down. But we don't know the buyers relative prioroties, so...

Cheers

 

yep, didn't see that one! Guess I should have scanned it properly before posting them but it was late ok! Would love to see what one with an LSD could do, would be a seriously quick car . If I was fortunate enough to have the choice, for me it would be the 360 hands down. Can’t compare them because I have never even been passenger in either, never mind drive them, but I am a real car nut and know that when I see any Ferrari it is a special moment. Just not the same with these newer mass produced Porsche’s IMO.

 

Nope. I'm sure the Cayman S would beat a 328 on the track.

But, pricewise, among two-seat sports cars, the 328 and Cayman are now competing in the same price range. The 360 and the Cayman are not.

Put away the stopwatch - assuming the car isn't for track use - and consider:

Aesthetics
Prestige
Sound
Depreciation/Appreciation
Available open-top motoring

I don't know. I suppose I'm exactly the kind of car buyer Porsche had in mind with the Cayman - single guy, 40-ish, educated/decent income, car nut. I guess the Cayman would be my preferred daily driver, the 328 the weekend fling.

The OP's comparison of the 360 and Cayman, as I said, was financially way off base. But if you look at it as "What could I buy for the MSRP of a Cayman?" then the question becomes more interesting and I think the 328 is very seriously a relevant car.

 

If so how is it going over there?

 

Holy smack I am sick of people laying out zero to sixties and frickin' friction circles on car A vs. car B. Are you really going racing? Are you buying bragging rights? Jeez, the ONLY thing that matters is how much YOU enjoy DRIVING the car. PERIOD. There is absolutely no other reason to buy any of these. NONE! If you are thinking something different, then you are lying to yourself. Do you drive around with a G-meter and a stopwatch to help you decide if you are having fun?

The Cayman is a nice car if that is what you want. It looks good, it's practical, it's very well balanced.

To me, and that's just me, it lacks all kind of soul. To ME, there is no comparison to the way a 328 makes me FEEL in comparison to the Cayman. A 360? I watch videos of 360's all the time just to here the engine. Sorry, but I have never even googled youtube to look and see if someone has made a video of a Cayman. I can't imagine it would be exciting. But that is just ME.

I say, drive them both. You will know in seconds which is the right choice.

(Sorry about the rant, it's been building up... No offense to anyone intended...)

 

I had a failed clutch pressure plate around 3 months after ownership. Was just one of those things I guess. I have the complete service history with the car and it shows that the clutch plates were replaced 3 times in the last 15 years, but the pressure plate had never been replaced. So I mainly put down to wear and tear over the last 15 years. Clutch kit replaced and the car has been running strong ever since. 360's are much newer and very reliable, so I dont think you will have any problems at all with it Anthony. As long as you keep the services up to date, you will get many trouble free kilometres!
You legally get a 3 month Warranty from used car dealers here in Aus nowdays, so that is on the plus side. If you are buying privately, you dont get that luxury of course. Which state do you live in, so I can let you know where to go for a good PPI and servicing mate?
Your gloves from the Sam Soloman fight, not too much to ask is it?......

 

Sorry, did I miss the "Ferrari Fan-boys only" sign? Or maybe the one that requests only hearing mutually reaffirming viewpoints?

Actually, I like this board a lot. It has a good diversity of opinion, and a more...rational, polite, and tolerant feel than many Porsche boards. But Porsche doesn't make enough models to really keep a good variety of conversation going. Plus, how many times can you hear the same old "911 is better than anything else Porsche makes"..."no its not" conversation. Plus, Ferrari is the only brand with near the same racing legacy Porsche has. They both make the world's best sports cars, along with serious racing machinery.

Whether you like it or not, even though Porsche and Ferrari go about things very differently, they are more similar than not in terms of the perceived role of each company.

Actually, yes...both of these car marques garner a large part of their ownership pleasure from performance, both real and perceived. And yes also to your question as to whether people are going to drive these cars hard, either on the road or the track (or both). I do, and I am betting many others in this conversation do. While I agree quoting 0-60 times is silly, things like Ring times, skidpad numbers, braking distances, etc are a very real indicator of performance we intend to tap (to the best of our meager abilities) and form a relatively significant portion of the driving experience for some people, myself included. So I agree with your assertion that an individual's driving experience is what counts, but for quite a few folks, these performance parameters we are discussing are integral to the driving pleasure derived.

 

I agree completely, but if you have to look at the book to know if you are going fast, or if the car is handling well, or if it is braking well, then something is wrong. And the feel of the steering, the feel of the brakes, the sound of the engine in the car at speed, these things cannot be described with accuracy, but must be experienced. If you are going to base your decision of buying a Cayman vs buying a 360 (or anything else) by the numbers printed in magazine pages, you are making a mistake. Reliability and maintenance are different, but unfortunately individual experience can differ greatly from the average.

My RS4 is better in almost everyway than my 512 (except top end, which I cannot tap into on public roads anyway). The driving experience is completely different.

 

I put 30k on a 360 F1, and only had to replace the clutch, and normal service. The 360 is a very reliable car. The service is a bit high because of the belts, but I suspect that the 360 has hit close to bottom on the depreciation.

The porsche is new, and will depreciate over time, so whatever you spend on maintenance, you'll save on depreciation. I'd get the Ferrari, a better car, and despite what they say, much faster than the Porsche in an everyday world.

I've owned Porsches and they are good cars, but they have no soul. The Japs and the Germans are great at building good cars without any soul, that's why Ferraris are so great, they aren't cookie cutter cars.

Art

 

I have never been stranded in my Ferraris. I have been stranded in the Boxster S, as I previously posted.

The Boxster is more practical. More clearance and more storage. More gizmos (heated seats, headlight washers, side air bags, remote trunk locks for both trunks, auto down passenger power window as well driver's window, fancier radio, CD storage, automatic oil level gauge, digital speedometer as well as a dial).

The 360 is more comfortable to ride in. Smoother ride. More room. Better paint job. Leatherwork is better. Has outside temperature gauge, the Boxster does not (may be an option as part of the "computer" package).

The 360 is more fun to drive and sounds wonderful with the Tubi. My Boxster S does not have the sport exhaust. I wish it did.

If I could only have one of these sports cars, I would choose the 360... it's not even close.

 

I provide evidence that the lowly "entry level Porsche" model can run the Ring in just 2 seconds less than a +105 HP 360 and only one person comments on this as an accomplishment?

You guys are a tough crowd.

 

Read J. Salmon's post above. I think he explains it perfectly. You're missing the 'Know your audience' part of any good presentation.

 

lol - Oh, I know the audience and the reason for the silence. I was just trying to politely stir the turds. You guys are a pretty decent bunch. I figured I could get a FEW more people to go "Wow, I had no idea the Cayman was that good...". The fact people were seriously comparing a 328 to a Cayman S (performance wise) shows where perceptions lie, versus what the truth is. Steering feel, brake feel, seat of the pants "road information"...Porsche's mid-engined cars take a back seat to no car in those departments, if anything of the "5000" reviews of them can be trusted. Now, addressing the "boring" or "soulless" claim is a bit problematic, because now we are deep into "subjective" territory.

I understand why most people (especially on here) think it a no-brainer to take a 360 over a Cayman S. But here is a couple of thoughts from the other side of the aisle:

1) I think we have established that PERFORMANCE wise...we are not talking two entirely different leagues.

2) The point about depreciation is true...BUT...what if the guy wants to actually put some miles on the car. If he piles 10k+ miles a year on what was previously a lightly used 360, isn't depreciation going to loom large in his future? Also, Boxster values tanked so much because they sold SO friggin many of them. Due to Boxsters having homes in so many p-car owner's garages (and the fact the Cayman costs more than a Boxster), not THAT many Caymans are selling (compared to cumulative Boxster sales). I wouldn't expect their values to go south QUITE as drastically.

3) Don't lots of people put Tubi's on f-cars? A Cayman can have an aftermarket exhaust fitted just as easily (although you obviously won't get a 360 sound, I assume).

4) When I have researched f-cars, people advised me to have the initial cost...and then have X% of that in reserve for maintenance and repairs. What if we are stretching the guy's wallet, or he doesn't want a large yearly maintenance bill? That same Cayman can be had for comparatively trivial running costs while in warranty, and most likely after as well.

5) Prestige and turning heads...okay, I won't be a total jerk and say what I REALLY think about considering that a major perk (lol), but lets just say not everyone thinks that is very important.

So while I agree the 360 wins hands down with regards to the heart for 95% of the people out there (including me), the Cayman S wins (in my book) when I use my noodle to really think about it. It is easy for everyone to type "you only live once...", but none of those people have to live with the ramifications of this guy's decision, and probably more than half have not followed their own advice.

In the end, I would follow the advice of the gent who (paraphrased) said "drive them both, think about what is really important, and forget the rest".

 

I believe both arguments have been presented appropriately. Let me put in my two cents comment. When I drive my Dino, it is always spelled FUN, the feel, the sound, and the whole excperience. And I am going under 3000rpm and it's just a V6. Then, when I drive my RUF I have different FUN. What is the point in comparing different cars made for different purposes as long as that driver ENJOYS the car within one's skills. I don't choose cars to impress others or prove that I can afford an expensive toy. I even enjoy my old fashioned Porsche 356B, that's why I bought it. Jimmy

 

Personally I'd consider the 360 more reliable as no German car has been that reliable since about 2000. Witness VW's class action lawsuits (supposedly) and Mercedes S class. Though in general I'd say Porsche hasn't really had too many problems, ESPECIALLY in comparison to MB, VW and BMW!!

And I LIKE German cars!!

How sad it is that North American cars are actually BETTER qualitywise than German cars for the first time in history. Well, sad for the German companys!! Though of course the "big 3" still build boring cars!!

Anyways, going on tangents here. LOL. The point is that I think Ferrari has a better reliability record these last few years than Porsche.

Porsche has supposedly always been "the safe bet" but if I were looking at a safe bet I'd buy an NSX. Wouldn't I?

Then again, MY problem with cars is this. If you were to ask me on one day what I'd buy (and no cost involved- the old "what would you buy if you won the lottery question.), I might say the Cayman. Now, ask me TOMORROW and I might say a Testarossa, then the next day my answer might be Lotus Exige........

The problem with ME answering a car related question is I will tell you what I want. And what I want changes according to moods and I'm sure budget, etc. I often tell people there are almost TOO many choices to make a decision!

Hos fast it goes around the 'Ring is fine for bragging rights but I could care less in buying a car. I saw a video with a lady doing it pretty fast with a van but couldn't say I'd buy the van based on that.

It's more about "feel". Same reason some of us who like Italian cars might prefer a Ferrari and some prefer a Lamborghini. We are all as individuals hard to define and no one can define the right car for us.

If cost is the factor, you buy the Cayman. If not, then drive both and buy the one you LIKE!! or better yet, the one you LOVE!!

 

I believe the VW quality issue you refer to is a US phenomenon, and is largely due to the US cars being made in Mexico. Also, I think MB has moved most its US production to other places (like Alabama), and so is paying the price.

Porsches, from what I know, are still extremely reliable on the whole, with the exception of the Cayenne, which was plagued with an extensive host of problems.

A funny comparison I meant to make earlier which is illustrated by this thread...you guys have seen the animated movie "Cars", right? "Luigi...he only like the Ferraris..." lol I thought the single-minded obsession with Ferraris of the two characters rang pretty true to form. lol

 

Get the 360...

 

I haven't seen it yet but as a Dad will soon enough. I was too sick at the time to even take my oldest daughter out. But, yeah I guess as a Ferrari board, comments will be biased. And people have said that but in a FRIENDLY manner!!

BUT!, one thing I do like about this forum is there was/is no blatant bashing/flaming. Just discussion. We all have opinions and respect each other's opinion even if it is different. There's no "I'M right so you're wrong, a**hole" like I've seen on FAR too many forums.

I also think a lot of it is that most members here are not just Ferrari lovers but carguys, period. I'm proud to be associated with this place for the above reasons.

 

Mount Isa of course.
PM sent mate...........

 

Have you driven a 360? I don't even think it would be close. There's really no comparison. I don't see 360's depreciating down to 30k like the cayman will in two years. If they do, A lot of people would be buying them.

 

Agree Jim. Will never happen.
360 all the way Anthony!!