$1400 for Major on 83 QV?

This car is up on ebay in Canada, it looks nice, its a 83 Modial QV. Engine appears to be spotless.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/GORGEOUS-1983-Ferrari-Mondial-Quattrovalvole-V8-Euro_W0QQitemZ180114542061QQihZ008QQcategoryZ6212QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

HOWEVER..... The owner claims that the car has had a Belt service (30K service) out of Chicago. They scanned the invoice in and its on the ad.

I tried to post it below (hopefully it took).

Would this be possible for a major service? The invoice has virtually no details of the service, and based on the name and logo of the garage, the service was done by a service company that doesn't specialize in FCars.

Opinions? My opinion is .... something sounds a bit fishy.....

James in Denver
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that's not a real "thorough" 30k

all that is is a "belt change only"

not enough parts listed

and that invoice "aka RO" looks like chicken scratch

avoid

 

Car isn't even registered... maybe can't pass smog (likely, if it's a Euro).

Joe G. is right... $1400 is a belt change only, not a major service.

Kind of dicey, and a lot of potential headache for a silver Mondial coupe, IMO.

 

I was quoted 1,600 for a belt change only by a local mechanic before I just tackled my own. Definetly not a major.

 

I hope the direction of this thread isn't going towards, "$1400 isn't enough for belts."

He isn't saying he had a "major" is he? The most important part of that service is the belts. You can change your own fluids and filters in your driveway. Sounds like the part you need to worry about is completed.

 

From the listing:

NEVER HAD ACCIDENT ON THE VEHICLE,VERY TIDY AND WELL MAINTAINED

MAJOR 30000MILLE MANTAINANCE DONE!

 

Well, what I was posting for was what bullfighter said, that he did claim a "30000 mile service".

But I was also posting because to me, without trying to accuse a fellow Fchatter (if the seller is an fchatter), the receipt of the service doesn't quite look right ...... the prices are round ($900 exactly???), the detail doesnt have any prices (shouldnt the invoice show the prices of parts and total for labor? reading it up close... shows $460 for all), and to top it off, there appears to be the original writing and someone writing over it (could be just to make it darker, but a better scan or B/W scan might make original writing stand out better, rather than writing over it).

It looks suspiscious to me. Almost like a "homemade" receipt.

All that said, the car does appear to be a pretty nice example.

James in Denver

 

gotcha

 

I converted the receipt to B&W using the red channel which had the most detail, and then enhanced the crap out of the contrast to bring out the writing. Unfortunately, the jpeg artifacting from the original image is just too severe to really be able to read it. Not to mention the handwriting.

Birdman
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The guy that put my test pipes on said that if i bought the belts and tensioners he could do the belts (and has done them before) on my car for less than a grand.

Like it was said you add the fluids and the water pump/a/c belt and why the heck is everyone paying $5k to $6k for a major?

If your car needed a clutch and other stuff then yeah but the belts are not that big a deal and the most important part of a major.

 

A major service on a Ferrari V8 is more than doing the belts.

There's a good list if you scroll down a bit on Eugenio's website. He's a reputable Ferrari tech in LA.

http://emelbon.tripod.com/eugeniosferrariservice.html

I'll paste it here for reference, although I'm not affiliated with him and haven't had my car serviced there. This isn't the official Ferrari list - e.g., you don't have to clean the engine bay. But it's a good major service.

*(MAJOR) Service for 308's, 328's, Mondial 3.2's & QV's = $2995.00
(348's are $4495.00, Mondial t's are $4995.00, and F355's are $5995.00 due to parts cost, engine removal, etc.)

{Documentation of every Major Service comes complete with a full write-up, pictures, and all receipts for your records}

-Replace Spark Plugs (NGK or Bosch)
-Replace Timing Belts and Tensioner Bearings
-Replace Cam Seals and Housing O-Rings
-Replace Valve Cover Gaskets
-Replace Distributor Seals and Housing Gaskets
-Replace Distributor Cap Gaskets
-Replace Cam End Cover Gaskets
-Replace Air Filter
-Replace Fuel Filter(s)
-Replace A/C Belt
-Replace Alternator / Water Pump Belt
-Adjust Valves (where applicable)
-Torque Cam Journals
-Torque Heads (check only)
-Set Timing
-Bleed Brake Lines
-Change Oil and New Filter
-Change Transaxle Gear Fluid
-Replace Coolant
-Inspection/Service of Air Conditioning System (recharge "R12" extra on 308's/348's but "R134" is included on F355's)
-Inspect all Lines (fuel, oil, water) and replace if necessary (extra charge for parts)
-Check of Lambda System and Bosch Fuel Injection System (make adjustments if necessary)
-Clean Engine Compartment
-Pressurize Coolant System, check for leaks
-Inspect CV Boots
-Inspect Fuse Panel
-Inspect Tires / Adj. Tire pressure

Note: Applicable cleaning and detailing fees will apply (depending on how dirty your engine is). The items below are inspected (at no charge) and advised to the customer. If any item(s) require service, the customer will be advised of the cost.

-Inspect Water Pump
-Inspect all Seals (shift shaft, main, timing gear assy)
-Inspect Ignition Wires / Caps / Rotors
-Inspect all Bulbs, Lights, Electrical Motors
-Inspect Clutch / Pedal play (adjustment setting if necessary or replacement)
-Inspect all Suspension Bushings / Connections
-Inspect all Exhaust Joints / Connections for leaks
-Inspect Brake Pads and Discs
-Inspect Wheel Bearings

 

A "major" in the way Ferrari intended it involves checking (and possibly adjusting) the valve clearances, which means removing the cam covers, which means new gaskets, new cam seals, etc. This gets to be a fair amount of labor and it adds up. Anyone that has removed and replaced all this stuff himself knows that it's a decent sized job. Not overly difficult, but it takes a while. And the front bank is a pain.

Birdman

 

I'm just saying you can change the fluids yourself and the air filter too. Don't wanna replace the valve covers if their not leaking. I clean my engine everytime i drive it. If you wanna be sure go ahead with the 6k service. Not gonna fault anyone for doing it right.

I'll take my chances with the guy up the street doing the belts and tensioners and i'll do the fluids and replace the leaks as they may or may not come up.

After working under my car on a lift you see how simple these cars are.

They did the belts and tensioners on my 300z recently and changed the plugs and air filter as well as a valve cover gasket for $750 parts included. I know the 308 is never gonna be near that price but still these 5 and 6 thousand dollar major services just seem a bit excessive to me.

 

It's your car.

 

All you need to lose sleep over are the belts. Maybe a valve adjustment every 30,000. If you don't like getting your hands dirty, get them to change the fluids too but even that is something Helen Keller could do on one of those cars.

Basically those $6,000 major services are, in my opinion, one of the biggest **** jobs out there with 3X8 Ferraris. I have had a 308 for ten years. The belts have been changed 3X and valves have been adjusted twice (which they really didn't need). While it was in there I'll usually get them to change the fuel filter for me because it is just a ***** for me to reach in my driveway (may just be me). A few other things too. Just little stuff here and there. Every time it was done by a Factory Trained Mechanic. Factory as in IN ITALY factory. Both guys. I paid about $2200 each trip.

Notice the word "inspect" on that list above. That would take me about an hour. Two if I were on the phone while I was doing the lookover AND including a piss break. That would be $200 tops for labor. NOT another $2000!!

I suppose that if everone of those areas of inspection needed a repair we may creep up to the $6000 mark - at least in parts (remember, the distributer caps are $180 each). But that doesn't mean we should be charged that amount by default.

Either way I am walking proof that you can pay a good shop a fair fee for belts without the add-ons, change your own oil and tranny fluid and still put the car on the track 3X a year plus pass 100,000 miles (42,000 mine) with zero problems except normal wear stuff in a decade. Hell I still have the same clutch in it.
Anyone that says that can't be done without spending $6000 every 36 months is full of ****. Have I made my point?

 

+1 on this "point". But... the owner needs to be able to inspect the areas that need inspecting. I'd have the valve adjustments done as well just to be sure the've been done unless other records show otherwise the've recently been done.

I think the receipt has just been overwritten to show the important points, not changed. That being said, a 30K major service was not completeted but the important items were done. Have the shop confirm what was done.

The most important point probably is that that the car is in Canada, which unless it is an original US car it may not be registerable in the US without a lot of expensive modifications which makes this car ridiculously expensive.

I've got to say I like the silver mondial coupes but I'm prejudice for silver!

Jeff

 

That might be true, but it does look fishy. I would NEVER overwrite a shop receipt with my hand writing. Raises too many red flags for me. And, as I said before, the figures are rounded and with no detail. Most shops now-a-days either print out a computer receipt (like my BMW motorcycle shop does) or writes out DETAIL on the receipt (like my local fix-it guy does, $4.95 for windshield wiper, $20 for labor to install wiper, total is $24.95 NOT $25).

Lets say I worked for shop X dealing in sports cars, and shop X is not computer savy. Lets say I also worked as a curbside dealer (illegally, because I don't have a license, just buy and sell to put a little $ in my pocket). I could theoretically go up front when boss wasn't around and grab some receipts. Then, when I moved to .... lets say canada .... I could start using those receipts by hand-writing the receipt as if a "shop" did it.

I'm not say thats what happened here................. just looks funny.

Heck, Mambodave just had someone POINTBLANK tell him "Hey, I'll buy your car but I'm gonna roll the odometer back".

AGAIN, that said, the car LOOKS nice, engine department does look clean and overall the car shows well.

As far as the arguement on what a 30K should cost, what it should contain, and how-much-is-too-much, I didn't mean for this to start a war on the concept, just this specific car.

James in Denver