Prius haters unite! (rant)

Is that a joke?

If prices rise to that level, transportation will then be a "luxury" and fewer and fewer people will see it as a "necessity."

That's why there hasn't been a decrease in driving across the country with higher fuel prices. People see driving as a "necessity."

Maybe I missed your sarcasm

 

Not all all...read the post I was responding to where the poster seemed to complain that the government not mandating that manufacturers sell a quota of hybrid cars and/or that consumers buy them...my point is that the market should decide and if gas goes up high enough the consumer will demand higher mileage vehicles which the manufacturers will then produce...the only thing preventing us from having 100mpg fast cars is our cheap gas prices of only $3 to $4 per gallon!

 

I do not see it as a joke at all...as long as gas is dirt cheap at $3 to $4 per gallon, consumers will continue to drive gas hog SUVs which manufacturers will be obliged to continue to produce. What most consumers fail to understand is that at $3 per gallon gas is much cheaper in 2007 at an average annual income of $40,500.00 when compared to 10 cents per gallon for an 1930s average workers annual income of $1,970.00 ... So, in comparison in 2007 an average worker could buy 13,500 gallons of gas at $3.00 per gallon whereas in the 1930s he could have bought 19,700 gallons of gas at 10 cents a gallon. If market correct gas prices go to $6 to $8 a gallon, we will see 100mpg cars in a very short time...

 

The Toyota Hybrid project is just a stupid quick fix to what has been a problem for a long time. I've been in Europe for the last 5 plus years studying medicine here and I'm sure that anyone else that lives in an EU country can attest to how the American media controls its population like no other. I'll never understand why they just don't turbo charge or supercharge engines and then put them into those SUV's. That was one of the reasons that BMW put their twin turbo I6 in the new 335i, for increased efficiency, and to reserve the V8 for the M3.

Cleaner burning diesel vehicles (common rail diesel, turbo diesel injection, multi-jet injection, etc) have been around for a very long time, have been getting incredibly good mileage (35+ mpg), and put petrol engines to shame when it comes to torque figures or reliability. Check out the Top Gear review of the BMW 535d. I think that sums it up. I think that the American public has some sort of fascination with how a car "picks up," so now not only do you get that torquey feel to your car or truck with diesel, but it will get 45-50 mpg (in smaller cars) without having to compromise drivability.

I always thought it was pretty funny that in a country where the highest speed limit does not surpass 75 mph (correct me if I'm wrong), everyone needs to have a high displacement engine. Instead of the Big Three producing more inefficient, large displacement engines, they should follow the Euro or Japanese examples of making engines that can produce over 100 hp/Liter. Ferrari can turn out 480 hp out of a 4.3 liter engine without forced induction. Two more economical variants would be the engines used in the Honda S2000 or Toyota Celica/Lotus Elise. Wouldn't that make more sense?

Sorry for the rant.

 

Speaking of Diesels, Bio-diesel (really green stuff) in a Mini is rated at 65mpg. The Prius will never get milage that high and last as long as a Diesel. The Mini is much more fun to drive also.

 

Yep, thats the best way to sum it up, i think

 

Craigy, it's no joke at all. When the average consumer can no longer afford to keep a gas guzzler on the road or as a substitute in favor of more fuel efficient vehicles, the short term effects are many. More carpooling and use of public transportation while manufacturers expand the hybrid/fuel efficient market to meet the increase in demand, less traffic, and shorter commute times. Diesel automobiles are fantastic and rapidly deployable.

If driving is a necessity, then it should be treated as such is what I meant earlier. A large jump in gas prices will not only allow more fuel efficient vehicles to come to market sooner, but it will also have a net effect on the ever worsening traffic that fuel efficient vehicles produced amid low cost fuel conditions do nothing to prevent or circumvent.

50mpg city AND highway vehicles are pointless until the impact is felt in the individual pocketbook where operating a used $5,000 SUV with 1/4th the fuel mileage is no longer the less expensive alternative.

 

Small displacement engines lose their efficiency once you start tuning them to have decent performance. They consume a lot of fuel, tend to have poor torque curves, and are expensive and heavy. What's the point? For the most part, non-American manufacturers focus on small-displacement engines because of certain misguided laws which directly tax displacement (rather than fuel efficiency or something else which has some relevance). They've been forced into improving output without raising displacement. It is not a purely engineering decision.

As for diesels, they're great for many purposes. But it shouldn't be surprising (or even interesting) that they get better fuel consumption figures. Diesel has a higher energy density than gasoline. Something would be wrong if comparable diesel and gasoline engines consumed the same amount of fuel.

 

You do know that a Z06 has higher MPG with its 7.0 V8 then the Ferrari? HP/L is not the whole story. The Z06 has the torque to run taller gearing, allowing it to drive harder at a lower RPM in ordinary driving. Motors are more efficient when being worked, then applying little torque at higher revs. The Ferrari is being revved much higher in most driving, which is pulling in more air/fuel compared to the actual amount of work require. By tuning the car for lower revs(less HP/L), and making it bigger to get comparable output, you create a more efficient setup.

The real solution, if fuel consumption becomes seriously important, is to cut vehicle weight. A modern car is loaded with so many stuff I would never ever use. Even my machines from the 1980's has features and comforts that are unnecessary to me. Be designing them without it, many pounds could be saved.

As already mentioned, the reason foreigners are using smaller higher output per liter motors, are regulations and taxes by foreign governments. Look up the Ferrari 208(yes, I said 208), a varient of the 308 so Italians could actually afford to own the car after Italy imposed a tax on "big engined" cars. Even Porsche delayed bringing in their 2.5L 944 due to the tax reasons, making one more year of 924 Turbo's just for Italy. As far as I know, the 208's wheren't any more fuel efficient, or "emissions" friendly, they where higher HP/L though, and escaped a heavy tax by being under 2.0 liters.(on the 208GT4, I beleive a gain of a whole 2MPG was made over the 50% larger engine capacity 308GT4)

A '82 308 QV had 75HP/L, and a '82 208 had 110HP/L.

Another note, is there is not a direct line between displacement, and engine weight. Often, those higher HP/L motors, are less compact, taller, and built heavier. Swap in a big 'ol chevy LS1, and replace the inline four in my import, and weight balance will hardly even be affected 1%.

 

I need this!! Could be an FChat Stuff bestseller.

+1

Yes. It's actually a good thing that gas is pushing $4/gallon. That's how behemoth laggards like GM and Ford realize that b!tching and moanining in Washington to get protectionist policies for their profit-machine Suburban/Expeditions is anti-capitalist.

I'm all in favor of great, high-performance fuel-efficient cars. The Prius is a red herring -- it's the anti-driving car and not a real solution for people who actually enjoy driving and appreciate automobiles as art and sport.

 

If anyone can get pictures of anyone putting in Premium, or anything other than Regular in their Prius or any fuel efficient car/hybrid would be Priceless.

 

I find that the Camry Hybrid drivers are a little bit worse then Prius drivers. They dont like to signal and when you pass them on the left because they are going 20 under the limit they honk and flip you off...suprisingly I have had to no troubles with either Lexus or Honda or Ford hybrid owners.

 

On my motorcycle the other day a Prius driver intentionally switched lanes to cut me off and when we got the next stoplight she started berating me for speeding excessively(I was going maybe 15 20 over). An observation that I've made is that a lot of the women who drive them are not very attractive.

 

Unbelievable. It's this social nagging that just eats me. Why do people in Minis and Civics seem to be so agreeable and Prius people have to wag a finger at you?

 

I hope you pointed out to her that you're still getting better mileage than she was !

 

Lol.

I accelerate right past Prius'.

 

Next time follow her until she gets where she's going and just wait next to the car. She'll think you're going to key it and after a few tense minutes of her time it might make her rethink cutting someone off just so she can yell at them.

I was cruising on my bike not long ago and a guy who was passing me in a car crowed my lane so bad I nearly had to drive on the dirt shoulder.

Well once he got in front of me I followed him from a good long distance and when he {like an idiot} pulled into his own driveway. I pulled off my helmet and asked what he was thinking. His reply was motorcycles have no place on the road. I laughed out loud said I would return someday to destroy his car.

I of course didn't but I'm sure that guy had many late nights watching people turn around in his driveway, kids walking by, late night noises etc.

Sometimes you have to scare people into backing off.

Or bear spray them in the face and when they're down flood them with it!

 

lol yea, I'm kind of a big guy 6'3" and about 260(I work out every day so no, I'm not a tubby lol), and I've had my skirmishes(sp?) with people on the road. I've never been run off of the road, and if I ever am run off of the road I would probably respond the way you did. Last week a hill billy in his "big ol pick-up" decided that he would shoot past us after my friend(who used his turn signal) already moved into the lane, so the guy barely missed my friend. At the next light I got off of the bike and walked up to his pick-up told him to watch out and he got a little lippy and I said if he wanted to big a big bad *ss to get out of the car, his friend was welcome to join him and they both said they weren't stupid and they didn't mean to, but that I need to calm down and watch where I ride etc. So then when I get back to my bike they point the handle tip of a baseball bat out of the side of their truck. I've been hit in the head with a metal bat back in high school and it didn't knock me out, although it did leave a pretty nice scar on my head that's just now starting to go away, so I went back up to his truck and said I dare you to use that. I realize then, that it's just a little souvenir bat, so I took it from him and threw it into the bushes on the other side of the street and warned him that he might not want to do that to someone else. Usually I just have to shake my head or finger and they apologize though.
Another friend of mine who's training to fight in the UFC(middleweight, real agile) has actually side-saddled his bike, jumped and kicked out the windows of cars who try to bully him, which is really impressive to see. If you ride you will understand how hard that is to do, to keep your balance while jumping/kicking.

 

Because people who dive Civics and Mini general enjoy driving whereas people who drive Prius think that anyone who drive anything else is evil