430 Engine faliure.

A while ago I mentioned the saga of my friends 430 spider and the car running on 7 cylinders, well as Pap mentioned it was unlikely to be an internal enigne problem, well after replacing and testing there is still a problem with cylider number six, now its beleived there is something wrong with the engine internally and warranty will be fitting the bill for a brand new engine, at this stage the dealer is not sure what has failed, this will only be discovered when the engine is opened up.

So this could be considered an engine faliure of sorts, any other 430s on here been affected, the car has done 8500 km's and is an 05 model.

Will update when I know more....

 

If it is only happening on one cylinder then maybe its a problem with the coil. If my memory serves me correct the 430's do have a coil-on-plug set up don't they?? So each cylinder should have it's own coil, and maybe the one on #7 is shot? Have they tried swapping the coils around to see if the failure moves?

 

Yip they tried putting in a new coil, still same problem, the engine ECU's are also fine according to diagnostic equipment...

 

First 430 major engine problem I've heard of.

Gary

 

Agree up until this happened I hadnt read og any reported 430 engine problems.

 

If the spark is OK then the next obvious check is fuel. I don't know the 430 engine but checking the fuel circuit would be a good candidate. If that has already checked out then something's busted for sure. Broken valve, spring, ring, rounded lobe on the cam. What ever they find I would love to see a breakdown of the warranty bill. Can you say Cha-Ching!!!!

 

Well there you go.
The dealer/mechanic would want to be 100% sure that it IS an internal engine problem before they rip the engine to pull apart. It could be a costly mistake for them. It could be something simple as a valve spring, as mentioned. Maybe something simpler again. Id double and triple check everything before Id put my hand up and say its an internal failure. I can imagine the mechanic getting his ass reamed if it is not. Could be internal. We will see. Gotta love warranty!
Keep us posted please mate, would love to know the outcome of this.

 

Will hopefully be going to look at the car tomorrow.....car has been at the dealer for nearly a month now....

 

Is that all?

 

Probably be there for a few more months yet........

 

Oh yeah...it's going to take us a couple of months to do the 4 hours of labor required for removing your engine (wink, wink)!
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I have seen valve spring failures.

 

FUNNY!! :-D

 

Yes at the rates FNA probably reimburses them, this job is probably the lowest priority in the shop. Its kind of counter intuitive if you think customer satisfaction is important - but then again, that's not why Ferrari is in business, its to sell cars...

 

A valve spring failed on my F355 only four months after I bought it. The engine was running fine except for one cylinder that wouldn't fire up, and the ECU diagnostics did not detect any problems!!

It took weeks of testing (electrical fault, injection fault, you name it) before the problem was identified. The valve had actually nudged the piston so eventually the top end had to be rebuilt as the valve was bent and the seat damaged.

I was not impressed, valve spring failure should NOT happen on a modern car.

 

Sad part is Andre........it does happen all the time on modern cars.
Have seen it MANY times actually.

 

Does something like this effect the value of the car? Do the new cars (I'm a Dino guy so pardon if this is a dumb question) have a motor fitted with a serial number that matches the car, or is it an independent mfg. number?

If so, would changing out the motor and not matching the numbers cause a problem down the line?

I know they make too many of these to make them collectible, so that's not an issue, it's more of a resale issue, at least in my mind.

Thanks for the replies,

Dave

 

This is interesting. What kind of cars do you see this more frequently on? Is it more common on high-revving engines?

You see, I work in the automotive industry and I have experience with heavy duty truck engines (8 to 13 litres turbodiesels designed to run 1,000,000 miles between rebuilds). Even though I'm not directly involved in the mechanical development side, I've never heard from our specialists about problems with valve spring failures. But then, these engines rarely rev more than 2600 rpm!

On the other hand I have owned several Maseratis of the Biturbo era (redline 6500 to 7200 rpm) and several BMW with V8 engines (redline 6200-6500 rpm). I have never had this failure even on high mileage cars, and I have never even heard of other people with similar problems on BMWs.

So, is it safe to say that valve spring failure is related to very high revving engines or does your experience tell you otherwise?

Regards
Andre

 

Ferrari has not had matching engine #'s since about 1969.

Dave

 

Not reallly Andre. I have mainly seen this happen to locally built cars in Australia. Ford V8's, Holden/GM V8's and V6's. Plus other engines here and there. These engines are not really high revving engines, but when the valve spring/s fail, 75% of the owners told us that they had the engine high in the rev range. The Ford/GM V8 and V6 engines rev to around 6200RPM. Not high revving engines at all. A Nissan Skyline I saw the other day at a mates workshop, had valve spring fail and it cracked the piston crown. That was at full noise on the dyno at around 8000RPM.
Safe to say, it happens to most cars, as I have done many a 'headjob' , but high performance engines such as Ferrari and Lambo ect.......do not seem to fail as much. They are the best engineered engines in the world.

 

Update: car is still at the dealer as they decide what to do, my mate is insistant he does not want a rebuilt motor or any variety.....to add insult to injury his GranSport is also at the dealer as the result of an altercation with a pavement which in turn resulted in him being mugged....
Total cost: pavement: one maserati
Thugs : one gold Peneri Ferrari watch....

So understandably he isnt happy.....

 

The engine problem has been solved without the need for a new unit, what transpired was that there was a slight leak in the intake manifold somewhere, that extra air was causing the ECU to get confused, resulting in bad fuelling and misfiring.

New intake gasket has solved the problem....

 

interesting, same thing was described to me on my 456 this morning by FofSF mechanic....one intake seal is leaking, but causeing low, cold/morning idle. will have to replace soon, but as soon as car warms up, the snesors haven't a major problem: idle or otherwise and car runs fine.

perhaps me, but after reading threads begining, I thought the one cylinder wasn't firing or lacking all power.

 

Based on first post I do not think they got it. We will see. Sounds like your mechanic is a blind monkey. Very poor diagnostics. There is a diagnostic flow chart to follow that obviously was not. Taking 1 month to go from a manifold gasket from a bad motor is a huge red flag.

 

I had a vacuum leak in a manifold gasket on a QV once. When it first began, the motor ran rough and sometimes backfired through the intake when cold. Once warmed up, it stopped. Eventually though it got worse and affected hot running as well. What happens is that when hot the aluminum heads and intake runners expand some and at least partially close the leak.

Dave