disillusioned with the 360 & f1

Couple of questions Brian.

Won't holding the clutch open, over time, cause the clamping pressure to be weakened as you are flexing the springs (they will have a working life won't they) for periods of time rather than operating them through the open/close cycle for a brief time when shifting?

When you shift to neutral on an F1 does the clutch close, or is it held open until the hydraulic pressure drops (i.e. switch engine off)?

Thanks

p.s. When I commented to a friend of mine that she shouldn't really hold her car on a hill using the clutch she replied "Its OK I don't rock backwards and forwards, so its fine"! - I replied "Whats that smell then?"

 

What about when approaching a slow right hand street turn? If I'm say... in 5th slowing down, approaching the turn, I would slow down, grab Neutral and coast for a little bit... then grab 2nd and ease out of the turn.


Ummm.....I don't think you can do this with the F1. Once you have neutral you have to stop the car and put foot on brake to select 1st and then away you go again.

 

Digging into my memory now, but with the Alfa's I think you could flick the lever 3 times and it would actually go from 5th to 2nd - but given the gorgeous blipping sounds etc I would always go through the box - no real wear issues if its all working correctly.

 

The clutch is held in the collapsed or disengaged position at all times when the motor is running unless the car is in motion. There are no exceptions.

 

From your discription it is malfunctioning. If it is not operator induced it can be fixed.


The hardware of the system remained unchanged except for some minor, nearly inconsequential improvements. There were a series of small changes made to the software which improved clutch operation. It is comparable to downloads to improve the operating system in your PC. I would still consider the entire run of 360 to be a single generation of F1 geneology.

 

The 360 system is a Selespeed. Read the window sticker if you ever see one. F1 was a name given by Ferrari. MM calls it Selespeed.

 

Why go to all the trouble? Just drive it like a stick shift. Thats what it is built for.


Of course you can do that.

 

Hey

Is there any advantage to shifting to N at full stop vs leaving it in 1 with foot on the brake?

Is there any advantage to shifting into N from 1 or R at slow speeds and coasting forwards or reverse in stop and go or when you have to reverse slowly?

What was the deal with R- and 1- and why was it changed?

Best

 

Could not agree more I am in my second week with my 360 F1 and have always been a stick shift guy the transmission and ****s system is fine if you think about car speed, whats ahead and what gear your in kinda like you are supposed to do anyway.

Martin

 

99+% of what we know about these systems comes from fixing them and not from the schools. Most of what I say here about 360 F1 systems comes from experiences repairing them. That being said the Enzo F1 (and 575 for that matter) system has been very reliable so little has been learned at least on my part, about them.

I would be making things up to say with certainty answers to a few of your questions. As to the clutch at a stop. That is not something ever told us. It was learned by me doing a diagnosis on a 360 several years ago. I mentioned it to some people at FNA and at that time they were not aware of that particular operating function. I would ASSUME the Enzo works the same in that regard.

As for slow speed operation. That needs to be a judgement call. If you are at that point where you can feel the clutch trying to engage and disengage going to N and coasting is better. My preferred style in that circumstance when possible is to stab the throttle and coast. In traffic or tight spaces that is not always possible.

As for your last question I really do not have an answer but I will get one if you want. I still have some high friends in low places, or vice versa, I can never be sure.

 

I would. Thanks and Best!

 

I also have a 2003 360 F1 and I READ the manual.

It says to stay in 1st at a stop unless for extended periods of over 5 minutes.

It says that neutral can be selected while moving, and the transmission will automatically select an appropriate gear when the paddle is operated while still moving.

It also says to go into low gear (1st?) only when stopped, but I question this last advice because when the car is at walking speed in 2nd, going into 1st allows more reasonable control and probably does no harm.

 

Great anology Richard I have a 2002 360 F! and replaced the clutch during the major and upgraded the TCU to avoid future problems I have owned a lot of cars over the years and in the past 10 I have had 4 Lexus and two were recalled twice for issues I also have a book written about the Quality that Lexus has created in their manufacturing process. At the end of the day these are mechanical objects if you want reliability and cost effectivness then pick a Toyota Corolla or Honda Civic if not then you will spend some money on the Exotic car you buy no matter which one.

 

FIX YOUR CAR AND ENJOY IT.

A few years ago, I bought a 348ts, and the second week I had it, the T/O bearing went out. $3K fix. A month after that, new fuel pump. $800 fix.

No sense crying and moaning. Ferraris are cars. Cars break. That's what mechanics are for.

 

When I bought my 360, I expected expensive maintainence to be part of the deal.

There is no way a low volume product can match the engineering refinement and reliability of a high volume product. I know first hand because I manufacture a low volume product, and no matter how hard I try, I cannot fully match the quality of my big budget high volume competitors.

 

Very good point. I never sit for any length of time with the clutch depressed in my manuals but with my wife's M3 with SMG I've never really thought about premature clutch wear leaving it in first. I realize it's not an auto truly but you sure feel like it is when driving it. Personally, I'd rather shift but she won't do that with a clutch pedal anymore.

Jeff

 

You have succinctly stated exactly why I have an F-1 car. My wife will not learn manual shift. Fact of life. I am in my early sixties and understand mortality. While the car has an auto mode, I have easily taught her to use the paddles in the event something happens to me.

As to leaving it in first, one does not want to do that for long periods such as the six-cycle stoplight which is as long as five minutes. Neutral is preferred in that case. These transmissions are quick to respond and it is no trouble to hit first when the light changes. What it feels like is irrelevant. How you drive it is. Since you would not abuse a manual, you would not abuse an F-1. You were very close to the truth.

 

Yes indeed. I have a Toyota and a Ferrari.

Thinking about the F1 in my new car purchase and thanking everyone for their input into this thread, answers a lot of questions.

Also, try Tim Staford in Ft. Lauderdale for fix: 954-764-7824. A highly regarded facility in Florida.

 

It's now been 80 days since I had the slippage problem diagnosed at dealers shop. The car hasn't slipped once since that time and I drive it every 2 to 4 days. The dealer suggested the problem could have "corrected itself". Maybe I stopped doing something in 1st gear that caused the slippage. (maybe the cost of repairs "scared the car straight") Anyhow,after 14 months of being my "daily"driver the car is back in good graces and I have regained respect for the car and tranny.

 

can your car come to meets and teach others: My older Mondial T is in need of new tricks in that area.........

 

Or a Porsche. How about a German (Audi) built Gallardo? Or a 600 plus horsepower SL65 (kicks a 360's butt in anything but the turns).

Frankly, I'm tired of people saying you shouldn't expect a $200k car to be reliable! If Ferrari owners demanded better cars Ferrari would build better cars.

 

Of course, if load vs. engine RPM required it, and I'd double clutch to save my synchro rings.

I think the point is that an F1 has peculiarities that need to be addressed by the driver, particularly at low speeds when you can't depress the clutch and you have no torque converter to help. If you choose F1 you need to understand that very low speed driving, in particular, can be awkward, and you need to think about what is going on so you can minimize clutch wear.

That said, I don't own a Ferrari and have never shifted a Ferrari F1, but have ridden in both Ferrari F1 and standard cars with the goal to learn as much about those cars as possible so that when I make a purchase I won't have any surprises.

 

Try a Bentley (Audi) GT, unbelievable car, but who really wants a reliable plastic rebodied Audi at $200K? I think there are as many crashed out there as are still around driving, they are so hard to drive fast properly (oh, remember way back-BMW refused to sell the 2002 turbos to Joe Public?). Many problems are owner induced, Ferrari are no different. Fix the problem correctly, learn from it, enjoy the drive.

 

That, sir, is exactly the right thing to do. Except for birthday parties, I don't like surprises either. BTW, the F1 double clutches for you. Listen and you will hear it happen. Cheers.

 

First, Ferrari has. BTW, I bought the 360 for the turns.