GT4 study & database... the finish!

If you're a GT4 nut and you haven't been following my crazy project of tacking every one in the US then start here:
http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=126898
then go here:
http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=137272

Those of you who have been following this....

*** I FINISHED IT *** WOO HOO !!!!!!!!

617 cars, 12,668 words typed, 30 pages of data, over 180 photos.

I need a drink!

As always if someone wants me to look up a car, no problem. If you want the entire CD its here:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=140123956061

Later tonight or tomorrow I'll post some of the highlights here on this thread.

 

A few interesting facts:

Of the 617 cars over 100 of them are no more. There are a bunch that haven't been registered or titled in over 10 years so I suspect the real number is much higher.

At least 101 have been modified and are no longer original.

Over 20% of the 617 have a mileage discrepency. Example; car #x was sold in 1985 with 47,000 miles, yet was sold again in 1997 with 22,000 miles.

Quite a few famous people owned GT4's; Elvis, Niki Lauda, Roger Moore, William DuPont, Malcom Bricklin, Mario Andretti, and on and on.

They sure got expensive in the late 80's and early 90's. There are at least 10 cars that were sold for over $70,000 and a few that went into the $90k range.

I was amazed at how many were driven over 75,000 miles.

 

Congrats!@!! Great job!!

Now can you find me one??? ;-)

Howard

 

i detest Ebay,

may i buy one from you direct? i do have Paypal. please Pm me .


great work, i enjoy reading stuff like this, i hate "watching tv" .

 

WOW Dave, Congrats!!! I too would like to purchase one direct if possible. I can PayPal immediately. PM me...
I can't wait to see what you've put together.

JIM

 

Hi Dave,

Could you tell me the information and any photos
you may have listed for 14888 on the CD.

I would like to ensure that it is accurate.

Thanks

 

PM sent.

also PM sent

 

Howard, the Mondi isn't keeping you busy enough?

 

We both share an irrational urge to categorize and capture! Congrats. Nice work, and work well done.

 

PaypAL sent

thank you for the PM!

and thank you for posting this.


things done by F chatters like this are great, and a real asset to the community.

we should welcome posts like this.

 

Bought one. My dad will love it. Great fathers day gift. He owns a very original "75" with the rear seat delete. Hopefully you will ship it pronto so I can give it to him on Fathers day. Jon in Delaware

 

Agreed, so long as the information is accurate and the
data used does not infringe intellectual property rights ...

 

I just bought 11080. Any info? Thanks Steve

 

PM sent

 

Jon,
GREAT idea for Father's day. Good for you.
When my kids get me things that relate to my hobbies it makes me feel good.

I'll send it out today you'll have it in time no problem.

 

Whoops!
I forgot to add a few cars I found that were brought in from Europe and add the race cars.

So its 629 cars.

 

got my disc today, after i get done fighting with this rassin frassin firefox issue i will look at it....

 

I think it would be helpful to the entire community,
to establish what percentage of the data found in public registries
e.g. www.dino-gt4-registry.com, Dave has used in the CD
he is selling, without crediting his sources nor securing prior permission.

Likewise it would be helpful if Dave indicated the
quantity of the other material, e.g., photographs that
he has used on _his_ CD without license nor prior permission.


I find Dave's approach very problematic for several
reasons:

1. the translation of information generously donated
by owners and enthusiasts into private property.
It will certainly make me think twice before
donating any information to a public registry,
if that information is hijacked for private gain
without permission.

2. the impossibility of verifying the accuracy of
the information or correcting it - principally
because the information is no longer public,
and secondly because of the dead end format
Dave has used. Unlike public registries
that are collaboratively created and continuously
updated, his database is outdated as soon as
another sale has occurred. This is what happens
when one person puts his index on the public 'flow'
and says it's 'mine'.

3. the data on the CD and the manner in which
it was obtained may violate privacy laws.

4. Dave sets a precedent with very unpleasant repercussions.
The collaborative nature of this forum and the many Ferrari
registries is attacked and prostituted. It is in extremely bad taste,
that Dave has not even bothered to ask those whose information
and intellectual property he has used for prior permission.




Following is the email I addressed Dave Stacy ...

"Can you approximate what percentage of the CD that you
are selling is found in public registries which were collaboratively
created over a number of years and are continuously updated?

I mention this as it is highly improbable for
one person to track down 600+ cars, accurately detail their history,
and shoot 180 photos in 1.5 years -- more than 1 car per day --
whilst also tracking down 450 365/400i's, and idling at an avg.
of 2.33 Fchat posts/day.

Does the CD reference/credit the people
and websites whose information you used, and does it
contain copyrighted material that you do not own,
have not licensed, and/or did not obtain prior permission to use,
e.g. articles, photos, diagrams, etc?

I mention this for reasons which we touched on previously.

Hope my observations are wrong.

Best."

 

If you only saw some of the other emails he has sent me

This guy replies to almost every post I make now.
Help me, I'm being stalked by the next Matteo.

Or maybe I have a groupie! Cool.


<wondering what kind of idiotic response this will draw>

 

ok,

i usually keep my keys out of these things, but i do have an opinion this.


1) i respect your point of view as its valid.

2) however, i dont give a damn as the info gathered and presented was posted freely , gather from various places and brought together to be shared and used by owners of the cars, fans of the cars, and those trying to put them back together.


i really, really could care less who or where the info came from, as an enthusiast, as an owner, and its the cry babies like you that will ruin the free flow of info on the internet. if someone takes a pic, to share, and then others use it, its great to post a photo credit, when its on a web site for profit with a mass market. but with so few cars, fans and owners its better if we share as much as we can with each other.


i am not a lawyer, but i do love the cars, and i welcome works like this, even if they have gaps or errors, as having a database to work with, is better than no info at all.


i have noticed you have gone out of your way , several times, in several thread to say something about Dstacy and his work on the cars.


why dont you , post pics and vins of your Ferrari's and Lamborghini's , write technical articles for the community, and post part numbers. then you can piss and moan about rights and so on.


welcome to my ignored user list.

 

i did some looking before i posted, but while using search i kept tripping across his posts, always following yours.

folks i don't "know" Dstacy, never met him, or even spoken with him on the phone.

but as a Ferrari nut with 4 of the cars under my belt, its this crybaby bull-skit that does nothing for those who track the cars and how they were made.


what, are the Miura's and 250/288 GTO'S the only cars people can track and refer to? poppy cock.


those of us that like what we like would do best to work together and share what we know. there are some well referred to books that have "known" errors in them and yet they are still great reading, for all the stuff they got right. there is no end all be all source for GT4 info, so i say thank you for the work as presented. i dont even know if/when i am going to buy next, but i love to read these data bases.

 

Dave,

Maybe you can simply ask one of the mods to simply move this discussion to the subscribed forums, where people who care about thier cars, care about this board, care about the other users of this board, and don't make threatening statements to other users in their first #&!@'ing 21 posts, while still $(%)*%$ing UNSUBSCRIBED, and where we can share and revel in the tremendous amount of work and research you've done.

 

Phylotic, why dont you go haunt the Porsche or Mercedes rooms or something, im sure they are much more legalistic.

Dstacy, good job!

 

dstacy

>This guy replies to almost every post I make now.


Well, Dave, it seems to me you are the one responding
... to almost every post I make, even those about the GT/4!!

But, that's neither here nor there.
While I am not going to address
every bit of your GT/4 research,
some of it should be addressed,
because frankly, it is questionable.

For example, I would still be interested to know,
where you have read that all Cromodora GT/4 wheels
came from the factory with hubcaps - you can
address it in the original thread if you like.



>Help me, I'm being stalked by the next Matteo.
>Or maybe I have a groupie! Cool.
<wondering what kind of idiotic response this will draw>


I am very well acquainted with your playground gymnastics
in order to evade the subject at hand.

If I may redirect your attention - if and when you feel that _anything_
I have asserted is untrue feel free to clarify ...


Look at it this way - stating what percentage of texts and photos from your CD
was taken from public registries is very good advertisement. After all, if you can
advertise how many words you typed and how many photos you included,
you can also tell us how many are yours.

Honestly, I cannot quite understand why you are evading the question.
You should abs. seize the opportunity and astonish everyone with the brilliance of your CD.


... I would be glad to purchase one for myself
and one for every individual on this thread
if your contribution is 51% or above.





>If you only saw some of the other emails he has sent me


Feel free. You have my permission to post my concerns
should you feel that it would help prove your point.

In the interim, I am certain you do not require anyone else's assistance.








---


>thecarreaper

>those of us that like what we like would do best to work together and share what we know. there are some well referred to books >that have "known" errors in them and yet they are still great reading, for all the stuff they got right. there is no end all be all source >for GT4 info, so i say thank you for the work as presented. i dont even know if/when i am going to buy next, but i love to read these data bases.



I couldn't agree more. But, that isn't going to happen with one
person simply taking the work of others - if others
followed Dave's (il)logic, his CD would soon be sold as part of another
product (!!) and so on and so on. This evolution can and does happen
- but not in a jungle, nor wild west fashion.

It happens, as in all disciplines, by employing references
and crediting where feasible and asking permission where appropriate.
Simple. Sensible. Common sense.

Obviously Dave did some work as well. That's extremely laudable
and I commend him for _his_ work. But I cannot commend him for
the work of others. Once he intimates the percentage of the CD
which is not his, it should be clear which part should be shared
and which sold (let us not confuse the two). Alternatively, if Dave
feels particularly altruistic, it could all be shared.
The public registries would benefit and Dave would benefit
from others correcting and updating his CD, evolving it
into the future, continuously.

This will _vastly_ outweigh the meager sum Dave will beget
from selling the CD and will make life much easier - instead
of PM'ing people for eternity he could simply share the information on
FChat for all to enjoy, verify, partake in and appreciate him for it.




>i really, really could care less who or where the info came from, as an >enthusiast, as an owner, and its the cry babies like you that will ruin the >free flow of info on the internet.


I think you'll appreciate the comments above.

They're what I would call a sustainable variation
of "i really, really could care less who or where the info came from"
since, as I have stated, the wild west sentiment,
isn't always all that it appears to be ....

For example - You wouldn't post Dave's CD all over the internet in
the name of "free flow" ...

What I have mentioned is a free flow where
one cares very very very much where the info comes from
and is respectful of it.

It's a bit like with those Ferrari records - it makes it
more than just a car ...



>David Driver
>Maybe you can simply ask one of the mods to simply move this discussion to the subscribed forums where people who care >about thier cars, care about this board, care about the other users of this board, and don't make threatening statements to other >users in their first #&!@'ing 21 posts, while still $(%)*%$ing UNSUBSCRIBED, and where we can share and revel in the >tremendous amount of work and research you've done.

Knowing the percentage of Dave's CD that
consists of data from public registries and others' photographs
is not threatening, rather extremely informative and sensible.

Likewise it can corroborate the "tremendous
amount of work and research" that Dave has done.

Thus, in principle you should be all for it,
whether $(%)*%$ing and/or #&!@'ing considerate.

I am.

 

Thanks for the comments David, Michael, & Paul.

As you can plainly see any response to this guy draws his fire.
I'm sure the 3 of you can now see why I don't answer any of his questions.