I know that there tends to be a high value placed on service records, and rightfully so. That being said, do you think that doing your own service work hurts the resale value of the car?
It may, but it should`nt. I don`t see any reason to take your car to a mechanic for simple fixes. Just hang on to the parts receipts to show the work was done. Timing belt changes are different. I will have a good shop handle that. My .02 cents.
On a 30 year old car, if you keep up on maintenance and put it back together right when you are done, it shouldn't matter much. Some guys are impressed by piles of paper. Some are interested in the car.
This topic's been beat to death. You can find 850 opinions with a search. There are only 2 or 3 that really matter, those are the people that are interested in your car! Too bad you don't know them when you're trying to decide how to maintain your vehicle.... P.S.- I don't think it matters as long as you document what you're doing. I have a book that I record my maintenance in.
Don't let worrying about that stop you from working on these machines. It can be a joy if you know what your doing( i hope to one day). Just take pics. of the work and let the resale chips fall where they may.
Thanks for the responses. I would think it really just depends on who is looking at the car, but wanted the opinions of experience. A good car is a good car, but some people might feel more comfortable with dealer serviced as opposed to self serviced.
I think this is exactly right. People who are comfortable working on their cars will be more comfortable with a PO working on their car. Those who trust only a dealer/pro mechanic with their cars will shun a a DIY car. I'm a wrencher myself, so I have no issues with a DIY PO, but I want to be able to see quality work. If the car looks sloppy, walk away. I also have a rule about big stuff - If the seller says that he rebuilt the eninge/tranny/rear-end/etc. 10 miles ago, I pass. Give me a few thousand miles on that rebuild and I'll trust it. I have seen crap repairs on plenty of cars, some by pros and some by amateurs.
It doesn't hurt if you do it like this................ and mind you I'm not conceited enough to call myself a mechanic, but I love my car... allot! This is what warped priorities can accomplish, .....with a little help from my friends (you guys)!!! P.s. If I ever sold my car (from my cold dead fingers) I would do a FBI background search on the buyer to determine if he was worthy........ :-0 Only one mechanic ever worked on my car, he told me he never wanted to work on it again as I was too picky and told me to do it myself. I cant speak for everyone but working on my car has given me an appreciation of it and Ferrari that an owner driver may never be able to appreciate. And when I am zipping down the road I know who torqued the wheels. When I took apart my clutch it was missing critical parts and had ones in there that did not belong. When I rebuilt my rear suspension it was missing half the bushings, both repairs had been made by a PB winning shop. I figured I could do an equal competent job by having unlimited love and time compared to a very smart mecahnic that was rushed and did not care. That said there are many mechanics here and around the country I would trust my car with but could they spend an entire afternoon licking clean the inside of my bell housing... or for that matter would they want to? Well I did and it tasted like chicken..... LOL Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
Very well put. (I tried to post this earlier, but I was unable. Since then Brian and RG have chimed in. My opinion is the same. "Spot on", Brian!) As was said (earlier), it depends entirely on: 1) Are you buying a car to sell? 2) What is the potential buyer of your car looking for? And the buyer (too) may, or may not be savvy enough to know what to look for. If he's not savvy, he'll want receipts that mean little, because it makes him "feel" better. A savvy buyer will want certain receipts, or proof of manintenance "currency". But anything beyond that is pure "novelty". Unless maybe he's looking for a concourse show car. In which case, of course , this whole topic is moot. On a 30 year old car though, 30 years worth of maintenence receipts are interesting, but by themselves are fairly worthless in assessing the true value of a car. I'd rather have a car with zero old receipts, and complete receipts for the last 4-5yrs, that detail what the current maintenance has been and provide and indcation of what issues the car has been facing recently. You want "today's" story, because those are the same issues "you" will be facing when you purchase the car. The rest is "old news". If you want my "take" on what to do, read my threads. You can do a search for : "10314", and (IIRC) "how NOT to pull the engine on a GT4", to find them. Or look under my ID and then look for the threads I've started. I'm a DIY'er. And I've made "all" the BAD mistakes. But I'm also documenting EVERYthing, here on FChat, and this is my record. I also was lucky enough to obtain from a PPO some valuable (and recent) receitps for my car. And it changed the way I was approaching the restoration of my vehicle. So sometimes receipts can make a difference. And sometimes in ways you wouldn't expect.
I would pay more for a car that has been maintained by its owner, provided he kept a log and optionally, photos. Obviously his personality and the rapport between us would play a significant part. Professionals are just that - professional. Even if they are incredible mechanics, and even if they take a personal interest they take cannot match the care of a _passionate and enterprising_ owner. A quick search of Fchat can confirm that -- look at Robert's photos for example, and I think he brings up an important point - love. When you love something you will go out of your way. Ultimately, it can go wrong either way. Just because one pays $5k+ for a major doesn't mean that it was not done right. I know every time I drop off a car that I care about I feel somewhat sick, so I hope to be able to service them entirely at some point. Whether it lowers or increases the value of the car is not a primary concern, but knowing what was done and how, is. I think when one really really cares about a car that feeling becomes paramount, whether it manifests itself in maintaining the car oneself, else develop into a very trustworthy relationship with a particular shop. Ultimately, the care one has put into a car shows, whether it has been performed by oneself else professionally.
Thanks for the kind words! When my car was 30 I even gave it a party and made a birthday card for it. Plus im not stupid eeven if obsessed. This car is a mistress, a toy. It is not daily transportation so I can spend 4 month fixing the radiator, and if I make a mistake I fix it. Ive learned some valuable lessons. 1.Never Rush 2.Get at least 5 pieces of advice and divide by 2 3.When you have a problem or question STOP, I mean NOW 4.Parts you dont understand take apart and put under your pillow. the Ferrari fairy will come to you in you dreams and explain them.... 5.Dont Force Anything EVER!!! 6.Use the right tool, if you dont have it go BUY it, even if its a $3000 press you will use 3 times in your life, then go buy a sun distributor machine so its not lonely. 7.Dont Rush EVER 8.Learn Italian, buy the Italian manual and try to translate it yourself, you cant do a worse job!!! 9. Ask the experts Ric R, Steve M. Phillip H. etc, etc, etc! They are the greatest resource to every Ferrari owner alive. I would give them a kidney if they asked!!! 10. Take thousands of pictures, digital film is cheap 11. Write everything down, I use the Leonardo Divinci backwards mirror writing. Damn now you know my secret!!!! 12. Have a picture of Enzo Ferrari in every room, its worked for me so far, my wife thought he was my Dad when we first met!! HA 13. Buy more tools, metric tools, wierd tools you will never need, buy more tools, specialty tools, ferrari tools, tools, tools, tools, gear pullers, slap hammers, thingamagigs, more, more, more 14. Buy light up signs for you garage, well why not It is time for my medication.........It is not an obsession..... I can stop at any time, I swear. really ;-) Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
I have real experience in this topic. I have serviced all of my Ferraris myself. (all of my cars for that matter) I have never had any problems selling any (5 in total) of my Fcars because I serviced them. Every buyer has appreciated the hard work and time I put into the cars. I keep fairly detailed records also and photos. I enjoy getting records with a car just to see what has been done over the years. I also look for a pattern to see what hasn't been repaired correctly. Most of the time if the same problem comes up it isn't because there is a flaw in the car but mostly likely a mechanic who can't diagnose it properly and repair it correctly. Records mean very little when you get down to servicing the car. I had one car with a book full of records but needed more work than one with a very small stack of records. Like said above it is a warm fuzzy for the guys who don't understand these cars or how they work. Just focus on the last 2 years of records/service. That is the only pertinent section with the exception of a repaint or overhaul of the engine or gearbox. Last but certainly not least records can be falsified. I have seen this happen many times. I have looked at many cars that I believe had false records. I didn't buy them. This I feel is one of the biggest pluses for DIY service. You can ask them owner directly about the work performed and you can tell right away if he performed it or is full of BS. Believe me if he really did the work he can explain it in detail. IMHO the ones who praise dealer work all of the time haven't seen some of the errors or bad workmanship that I have seen. I had one car that was completely dealer serviced and I noticed some fairly major issues and half#*$ all around workmanship. I like to get DIY cars. A set of records from the dealer is nice to have for informational purposes but is no guarantee of reliability. I think that is where most get confused.
I can testify to that, having purchased a car that was once owned by 308GTS. His detailed log of work done is much better than a scribbly receipt from some shop. I'd prefer buying a car with work done by a pro to one that has been worked on half-assed by it's owner in order to avoid costly bills. But above both of those I'd prefer a car which was worked on with loving care by an owner who took the time to do it right. (Having said that, Greg, it wasn't you who duct taped the battery quick-disconnect connector back together on my car, was it? )
Thanks again everyone! This is exactly the kind of advise I was hoping for. Robert, I couldn't agree more. When I work on my cars, I do things that a professional would not bother with, I believe. I also would rather leave it apart for a while and decipher the right solution than rush it back together. Although, I have never put the parts in question under my pillow. I will remember that one! Your workmanship looks exemplary. I am preparing myself for owning my first Ferrari, and have obvious concerns about getting a good car which I can afford to maintain properly rather than one that will eat me alive due to my ignorance. Looking for a nice photo of Papa Enzo now....
Thanks for the compliments. I appreciate it. LOL!!!! That is funny. No, I didn't tape it. It was there when I got the car but I completely forgot about it until you mentioned it. I had plans to replace it but forgot about it. I called a few parts places when I first got the car and not one of them had a replacement at that time.
My plan is to put a download of the thread on the repair of my car onto a CD as a web archive that will be part of cars permanent service record. http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=105874
