6.0L F430

That's right, don't kill the messenger! When the car arrives, dig up this thread and let us all know the details. It will be interesting to see what they are doing in order to up the displacement.

Ray

 

I believe you for reals cannot wait to see the car

 

Im with you on this one Ray.
My friend (engine building expert) and I had a lengthy discussion about this 430-6.0L engine. He said that it would be near on impossible to get 6.0L displacement out of that engine, as is. This is basically going from 262ci (4.3L) to 366ci (6.0L). You CAN get more displacement by stroking the engine-replacing the crank, rods, coupled with shorter pistons. The engine crank would HAVE to be replaced (to give a longer stroke) in this engine, in order to gain any/more displacement. As well as longer rods and shorter pistons (shorter pistons are now needed to avoid any valve/head clearance issues) Not as easy as it seems my friends. This is where the fun really starts, as ALOT of calculating/measuring needs to be done in order to make it all happen. To get this HUGE jump in displacement, means that it will need a stroker crank, stroker rods and shorter pistons. Thats the easy part and the issue now becomes in the engine block. We believe that the offset of the stroked crank (to get this 6.0L capacity) and the angle of the rods will not be able to work in this engine block. There will basically be 'clearance' issues trying to get that stroke to bring it up to 6.0L in this engine block. We worked out that this engine block could probably be stroked to around a 335ci (5.5L) max! If you 'bore' out these cylinders 1mm, this would take the engine to a 337ci (still 5.5L). No where near being a 6.0L engine from this engine block. They will have to heavily modify/machine the internals of this engine block to avoid the clearance issues to make it all work. Whether or not that is possible is another story, as I havent seen the inside of a Ferrari engine. A quick fact about stroker engines- the 'longer' you stroke an engine, the more RPM the engine will lose. But you gain ALOT more torque and more HP also. This kinda makes up for the RPM loss. Anyways, it will be very interesting to see how this eventuates my friends and I am looking forward to seeing this 1st 6.0L engine also.

 

I sent you an e mail and understand it costs 50,000 Euros for the motor, Sounds more like $100,000 by the time it is all done. I have no reason to doubt you, but am confused as to choices. You say you have a shop - how does that fit into the price-process mix? Best

 

As I expected.........MEGA DOLLARS!! US$66,475!!
This will cost around US$316 per/HP. Huge amount of dollars for a 210HP increase. I wonder how much labour costs to fit?
Seriously though, why would anyone really bother with this engine that costs this huge amount of dollars. You could bolt on twin turbos for $20K and get 700HP+.
Now that I do think about it...........I bet ya no one WILL bother with this engine!

 

Well, I'm sure you already know the answer to that. First, nothing rational about Ferrari ownership. And not sure you can compare slapping on a few aftermarket turbo's vs. a special factory built performance motor.

 

Of course you cant.........

 

Or.............can you?

 

Sorry, which option is this exactly? so your saying that yellow enzo was different to all the other enzos produced and had 700+ bhp??

please explain/provide more info on this....interesting....

 

First of all,it is physically impossible to bore that engine to 6.0.
Second,Ferrari does not offer any upgrades of that caliber to anyone.
The ones they do offer, are relatively minor power hikes.

 

Since this is supposed to be a factory upgrade, what does his shop have to do with it? And since he is not an authorized dealer, how can he even simply act as a middleman? The secrecy and the illogic of the mod make it seem very suspicious.

 

Very intresting story, and the pictures are also. I've never heard anything about this before.

 

Its also interesting that with all the other Client services advertised on the Ferrariworld site there is no mention of it nor have I ever heard any dealers offer it as an option very strange.

 

Your friend is correct. When you stroke the engine with a different crank, you increase the torque, but you also encounter other problems. The angle of the rod may hit the bottom inside of the cylinder wall. Additionally, as the stroke increases, the feet per second (FPS) increase on the pistion. This is why motors with shorter strokes rev higher. As you increase the stroke, the FPS increase on the piston due to traveling a further distance per RPM. This results in additional force on the piston, which can crack the ring lands, etc. Using forged pistons helps, but you can only make something travel back and forth so fast until you run into problems. The stoke on the 430 is already up there when you consider the engines redline.

Ray

 

Another factor, so far overlooked here, with a stroked motor is the issue of the sump. The 430 already uses the sump cover as one piece with the lower bearing covers to get the motor as low in the chasis as possible. A big increase in stroke would need more clearance for the crank throws on the bottom. This would result in having to either extend the sump lower, perhaps too low to be practical or raise the centerline of the crank higher along with the rest of the motor which would necessitate redesign of many components, including the output to the transaxle, clutch, etc. Might as well redesign the entire car!

Dave

 

no, this wouldn't be a factor, since the upgrade is just "boring out the motor"

Ray

 

x2!

 

Where did you hear/read this ? I met the owners a few times and he never mentionned this . Would be interesting to know .

 

I know you can't see me, but I'm bowing to your knowledge lol

 

F11 is a bull****er,but it would have been nice if they did such a thing to F430s engine,an F430 with 700 Hp means that it would be faster than anything on the road.

 

Yes, but I thought we already established that boring out the motor to get an extra 1.7L was not possible. I have pic of a cylinder head and based on my admittedly rough measurements using the 92mm bore as a guide, there is about 13-15mm between the chambers. Without changing the stroke, you need to bore it out to 109mm to achieve 6L. Oops, not enough metal!

Dave

 

In knew there had to be another Trekkie on this forum!!

\\// Live long and prosper.

-DrC

 

lol

 

Yeah, I was just being funny

Ray

 

If you can't put a challenge grill on a 430, how are you going to upgrade without USDOT pre-approval?

I am skeptical...but for it. More hp than an Enzo! Yes....