I'm intrested in the history of the desirablity of Ferraris

I have additional thoughts.

I think that the exposure of these cars to young people today has changed from what it was before.

If you're 30 or older, and you're a car guy... It probably comes from your family (father). Perhaps your family had a subscripton to a car magazine - it doesn't take much of reading R&T or C&D or MT when you're 8 to really "plant the seed" - you start memorizing 0 to 60 times and Braking Distance from 80 times, etc. In general, the exposure was less.

Nowadays, the exposure is more, and by this, I mean specifically (a) Video Games, and (b) easy access to information (i.e. Wikipedia is the King of Road and Track "Road Test Summaries"). Many, many families own a Play Station, Ninentendo, XBOX, or XBOX360 and I would venture 80% of those families have a racing game - Gran Turismo, Project Gotham Racing, Forza 2, etc. That means gobs of people get to see, feel, learn about, and play with "virtual" exotics via these games.

You know the first Ferrari I ever drove? It was 1989, and the game was called "Test Drive" for PC - I got it for Christmas. I was 10. Now look at me - I'm a total mess!

I think the original poster has an excellent question and this is something I've wondered for a long time.

 

I think that hurts Lotus a bit in the 'desirability' column.

But, James Bond had a couple of Esprits. (But then it was Roger Moore as James Bond...)

Mostly, though, it's that the Lotus brand is kind of obscure - what's their emblem? Isn't that a yoga thing? Didn't they make cheap sports cars in the '60s? etc. The Ferrari name is very evocative. Even middle-aged women who have never opened a car magazine know what 'Ferrari' means (with apologies to whatever car-savvy middle-aged women hang out on this site...)

True, probably a totally different environment for attaining carguyhood. And I did have those 0-60 times memorized, lol.

However, if you look at Ferrari's dealer network compared to Porsche's (nearest non-exotic rival), it's pretty sparse. I grew up in Cleveland, and the fact that an avid car enthusthiast like myself would see maybe 2-3 Ferraris during my entire childhood kind of marked them as something rare.

If I had grown up in the La Jolla or Rancho Santa Fe areas of San Diego, maybe the mystique would have been slightly less.

 

I think the rare cars are still going to be the thing to have. 275gtb, 250, daytona, dino. People just don't see them and they are really beautiful cars. Beautiful and smart never go out of style. The 80s Ferrari's will always be around, but the 288 GTO/F40 seems to be the only really collectable cars from that era. The question I have is: how many Testarossa's, 308s, 328s are going to be beyond restoration in 30 years making only a select few available? Perhaps that would drive their values through the roof.

 

The other sad thing to think about is how the electrical content in the current Ferraris is going to make them less collectible. Nobody wants an old PC and, unfortunately, there is a lot of PC technology in the current cars.

When I see old electrical stuff in some cars from the 1970's, stuff like 8-track stereos, built-in CB radios, giant built-in car phones, etc., it is a bit of a turn-off. And these are just accessories.

Imagine the feeling of having really out-of-date engine CPUs, dynamic suspension, F1 transmissions, etc. Imagine if they had built the 1960's era Ferraris (the 250 GT for example) full of old-stereo-tube-based electronics. Cars over the next 20 years are going to get very high-tech. It will make our current cars seem like TRS-80 computers.

Yet, the older classic Ferraris will still be using carbs, points, distributors, etc. There will be certain charm to that old stuff. Kind of like keeping an old grandfather clock around.

 

I think that's a very 'now-centric' perspective. The Dino wasn't even a an especially sought-after car 10 years ago, and the '80s Ferraris will (a) not always be around and (b) be very desirable due to their relative reliability and media fame.

With the growing population, there will never be enough 275 GTBs around to come close satisfying the monied collectors.

Probably, but the desirability of the marque will remain.

You can always install some kind of bud vase holder where the nav system was before it went kaput and became obsolete.

 

Thanks for all your replies so far, very interesting!

If I am correct in my assumptions for this thread, in the late 60's/early 70's, Ferrari's where mostly known to car crazy kids and teens (as I'm sure much of those on this forum that age where). They where seen as desirable but not as the ultimate status symbol, correct?

In the early 80's, Ferrari's became more desirable, correct. TV show marketing, coupled with the launch of the super Ferrari's (288GTO then the F40) pushed it to a whole new level.

I remember when I was growing up, the Testarossa was every one of my friends dream cars, we all had white or red posters of them. The 348 was non existent (hell I didn't even know it existed as a kid until the F355 came out).

Would I be correct in assuming that the F355 had a lot to do with the increase in desirability as it was an entry level Ferrari that offered world class performance for its time. Up until then, the only Ferrari's I knew of or cared about where the 288GTO (but barely as it was before my time), the F40, and the Testarossa.

The then the 360 came out and kind of blew the youth away. Here was a Ferrari that looked very modern/futuristic for its time (though I know many would disagree with the statement that it was better looking). For the first time, people considered the entry level Ferrari and absolute exotic and many would take that model (430) over anything in the line today, I feel.

Did the Lamborghini with the Countach (which I have been told was the first major Superexotic for its time) help Ferrari reach its popularity?

 

The car mags raved about Ferraris in the 60s and 70s just like they do now.

I have wanted a Ferrari since I was 12. 1957.

 

No, before the 355 the 308 QV and 328 were the cars that made the entry-level Ferrari a big time success. A 328 GTS has 270 hp, great handling, revs like crazy, has a targa top, and is sexy from every angle. Watch Christie Brinkley in the Family Vacation movie and you get an idea of what it is like to see a 308 (or a later 328) going down the road.

Some would argue that the 246 Dino was the first to stake that entry-level claim. I could be talked into that too! Okay, maybe I like Feraris too much to be objective about this. Lol.

 

To my eye, not much has changed. Muscle cars in the 70's and 80's were the rage partly because Detroit was making them. Additionally, such cars were always more affordable for a greater majority of the population than Ferraris. And we are starting to see some resurgence in the muscle cars phenomenon...the new camaro, mustang, etc. At least up until recently, the muscle cars had been largely replaced by other affordable and modifiable cars, such as the Mitsubishi Evo, Subaru Impreza, etc.

In regards to the desirability of Ferraris...they seem to have always been desirable and not really attainable by most, giving them exclusivity. Magum PI and Miami Vice brought awareness of the marque, but I am not sure this made Ferraris any more visible outside of California.

But to Enzo Ferrari's credit, ferraris have always seemed to exude passion, exclusivity, and sex appeal. The cars were and are meant to be driven, seen, and heard...no need for a good radio or cup holders...after all, you're supposed to "drive" the car not lounge in it dummy. Ferrari seems to have always known and remembered this and have not deviated as have other manufacturers. Ferrari marketing always limited the number of cars built and sold, adding even more allure. Even though quality is sometimes questioned, the "experience" is never in doubt. And let's face it, whether you like it or not, ferraris represent the standard by which other exotics are judged. This doesn't mean that a particular model Ferrari is always better than another comparable model (e.g. Lambo), but other automobile manufacturers use Ferrari as the yardstick. What a compliment! My Ford GT would not even exist if it weren't for Ferrari (Thank you Enzo for not selling WF your company!). During the building of the Ford GT, the designers tested and tracked the 360. This was their "target". Of course, Ferrari brought the 430 to market the very same year that the Ford GT came out of the closet, 2005.
And who can completely explain the mystique of ferraris. Although I don't consider any car an "investment", ferraris come about as close as any. For us non-ferrari owners, there is no use getting mad about it, or trying to explain it away with stupid statements, such as "not worth the money" or "overpriced." It is what it is....a mystery but a damn good driving experience.

 

Agree, but the other company that never seems to get mentioned much is Pininfarina. Their car designs have been a critical piece to Ferrari's success over the years. They deserve the credit for most of the incredibly beautiful designs we see wrapped around Ferrari's engines.

Take a look at some of the Ferrari body designs over the years at:
http://www.pininfarina.com/index/storiaModelli/modelli.html?modelli.php?sl=0&cmp=anno&ord=desc&ids=bc2dea26a9edda38b2dac2e347965160

We always see spy photos of the test mules being developed at Ferrari's factory and test track. But what we'd really like to see are the body designs of the next generation Ferraris on the drawing boards of Pininfarina. I hear that security is too tight for that to ever happen. Remember all the rumors and spy photos of the "600 Imola" which was to be the 575M replacement. The workers at Pininfarina must have laughed knowing they were working on the "599 GTB Fiorano" design. At least both cars were named after race tracks.

 

I can't imagine the computers in these cars no matter how out-dated they might be would ultimately become unrestorable. They are not simple like the early cars with points, and I highly doubt people are just going to pull the plug on a 348 or the like just because they can't get the brain module repaired. It is going to be interesting to see what our current high school graduate population is regarding their car taste in ten years. Will they be grabbing up the 348s and 355s they remember as a kid, or will there be not as much interest in the cars of their generation as the '80s kids who all have their 308s etc now. Come to think of it, do they still teach what points are in high school auto shop?

 

Case History!
During my time during and after high school Ferrari's were so rare with the production numbers they had at the time that most people (even car guys like me who has the first SCI somewhere in the attic) never thought of the possibility of having one, or even looking for one. They were to read about like a Bugatti or other exotics.
I ended up with one because I was looking for a nice used Jag XKE, went by the local Jag dealer and saw some fairly tacky ones (mildewed carpets and all).
I continued down the road running errands and drove by The Auto Palace and saw a nice Alfa Spider in the window. Obviously, the errand could wait a bit longer.
But it turned out there was a "like new" silver 67 GTC in the back for $21K, just a bit more than the mildewed XKE convertibles. That was a revelation! So I decided to buy it. The deal fell through for reasons which are amusing to me, but that is another story.
A year later (now I have been looking for a Ferrari - why buy a Jag if you can have a Ferrari?) and ended up with my current 330 GT. This was in 1980.
The moral of the story is/was: I had no idea that a Ferrari could be bought for anything near a price I could afford, competitive with Jags and Corvettes. They were just not on my radar screen due to rarity. And the GTC was the first road Ferrari I had ever seen.
Availability enters strongly into the equation. It is hard to develop a real yen for a car that you may have never seen, and as far as you know, you will never be able to find, or buy if one shows up.
In high school (mid 40's) I really wanted a '40 Ford convertible to hot-rod. Never had one.
In the '50s a Thunderbird with 3 spd overdrive and supercharger was my wish.
In the 60's a Plymouth Wagon with all the performance goodies was my thing (4 big kids to haul around). But it would go pretty well.
And finally the kids were off the budget (well, sort of) so I started looking, but not at Ferraris. But ended up with my 330GT described above.
I don't know how that applies to todays crop of future antique Ferrari owners. In my case I only read about them, or admired them as racers, so the question of wanting one was never in my mind. I think publicity and current production numbers have changed all that.

Cheers
Warren

 

In the 70's I was driving an XKE. Try to imagine that time without the internet and not very many Ferrari service centers in the US. The Ferrari was not that much money, but not a car for the faint of heart.

 

So not true. I am 100% sure I am younger than you and I think the whole concept of drifting is pointless. I have a Ferrari calendar, mouse pad, jacket, shirt, models and more. I don't have any "Fast and the Furious" type items. I have no interest at all in the "Fast and the Furious" type cars, though we can't afford and never will be able to afford a Ferrari.

 

Thanks to my father -- a Mopar fan -- I had a complete set of tools: in English units, not metric. So my eyes were fixed on British and American iron.

But I fell in love with Alfa Romeo, when I saw "The Graduate" ...

... and saw Dustin Hoffman put up the top with one hand. Earlier, I'd helped a guy put the top up on his Sunbeam Alpine. What a difference!!!

 

The brand is much more popular than ever today, 25 years ago who would have thought Ferrari could have a dealership in a casino and people would pay $15 to view the cars or pay for a pic sitting in one, no other car company exotic or otherwise could pull this off today or then, Ferrari is the number one exotic dream car manufacturer and much more well known and popular today vs then

 

Number one in terms of what? Speed? The Lamborghini LP640 will go to 211, which is faster than any Ferrari now in production. Desirability? I can argue that many more people will prefer the Lambo over the Ferrari due to it not being diluted with low-end models like the 360/430, though arguably the Gallardo is doing just that. Interior quality and comfort? Another point for Lamborghini. Exclusivity? Again, Lambo. Most copied style of doors? Lambo. Least likely to catch on fire upon accident? Lambo.

Or you can look at arbitrary notions like "most posters in a dorm room of drunken morons" and form your opinion that way.

Let's not forget this: "You buy a Ferrari when you want to be somebody. You buy a Lamborghini when you are somebody." Sinatra said this, by the way.

On a personal note, I was ready to pull the trigger on a pre-owned 360 Red/Tan Spyder, but I don't want to be identified in the same group of people as the Ferrari owners here. At shows, I've noticed that Ferrari owners are full of themselves and online, they think they are Gods and their cars are the Chariots of the Gods. If you attempt to bring up logical discussion about the safety of the cars or alternative cars, they fight you and lose their heads.

Anyway, long story short, Ferrari has a great history. Its owners are cocky as hell and they think they should be worshipped, until some guy in an LP640 or a TT Gallardo kills them on the streets.

Granted, I love the F50 and other limited edition stuff they've done, but you can hardly judge a company by 300 limited cars as opposed to the cars that most people can buy and do buy.

 

^^^ well put

i appreciate your blatant manner.

 

Lambo was a different company when Sinatra made his comment not using Audi parts and mass producing them today as you see Gs everywere, and who cares what some singer thinks, there was a recent discussion sbout a dealer mentioning most Lambo buyers are trying to establish themselves as somebody vs Ferrari owners have arrived and dont care, concerning the jerk ratio both marques have that aspect, most Ferrari owners are cool IMO unlike say new Vette owners as a group.

Wynn picked Ferrari and charges admission when Lambo is a featured attraction for a casino and charges admission they can say they are in the same league if thatever happens

 

"Ray, when anyone asks you if you are a god, you say YES!" -- Ghostbusters.

 

First and foremost, there are 10+ F360/430s for every G. Secondly, your "it's an Audi" argument is as stupid as saying "Audis are VW" or "Bentley is an Audi" or "Bugatti is an Audi." Sharing technologies to make a higher quality product does not in fact devalue the brand. If anything, it drives down the costs of maintenance - among other things - so you don't have to spend $16,000 on an F1 tranny pump, unless you enjoy that sort of rape as one of the perks of ownership.

If you want I can start naming all the companies - a lot of them crappy - with which Ferrari has been affiliated in the past, but then I'd just be down at your level of argument, which would frankly be sad.

Oh, and one more thing: you say, "who cares what a singer thinks?" yet you apparently care what some dealer and some businessman think. Do you not see anything wrong with any of that?

 

Great thread and very interesting comments.

I own a Lotus sport and i think what has hampered the mark is the bad reputation for relability. I like the way it drives and the Toyota drive line and its expected reliability made the decision to buy the car easier! I think the car handles better than my F430, althought the F430 has 2 1/2 times the power and enough leather to make me happy.

The Lambo's I am sorry to say I do not get. I drove a 2006 Lambo M car and walked away shaking my head. it is the worse car I have ever driven short of one of those Pontiacs with the eagle spread on the hood. A horrible car! The Gallardo is better but no where near the F430 in refinement and handling!

I do not like the new corvettes! In my view the steering is numb to the feel! The new C 6 1/2 coming in August is supposed to have a better interior and most importanly better road feel. I will drive one to see if I like it.

My biggest surprise was the ford GT! I love the power and the way the car drives. In my view it is a world class acheivement by Ford.

Although I own a Ferrari I do not consider myself as a Ferrari man. Maybe after awhile when I ascend to god-ship that will change . I must admit I have been pleasantly surprised with the two Ferrari cars I have owned. My 360 Modena was an awesome car and the F430 even higher on the food chain! The cars have provided alot of pleasure and while not cheap to maintan have been perfect. I have met alot of neat people with exotic cars and forged many freindships. Great cars!

Lee

 

Henry,

Quick question. If you feel so strongly about the negativity of Ferrari cars in general, why are you spending any of your time posting on a Ferrari-related website?

For example, I don't like the taste of the okra vegetable, so the last thing I would think of doing is spending any time posting on an website forum dedicated to okra.

 

+1

That was ludicrous. Especially the notion that all Ferrari owners are self-proclaimed gods while Lambo owners are down to earth. If anything, most Ferrari owners I've met have a lot of respect for their marque's history, while most Lambo owners are keen on showing that they're rich, that their car has cool doors and that their car does 211 (10mph faster than a 1990 F40).

(There are exceptions to this -- for example, JeffSD out here has gone on some runs with the FOC in his Gallardo and just respects great cars in general. In fact this whole discussion is a generalization and probably not helpful as such.)

But you won't find a better car community than owners of the vintage and modern classic Ferraris.

There's going to be elitism any time you're discussing cars that sell for the price of a house, but it's Ferrari's history and aura (and not the bargain prices of spares) that makes it the world's most desirable marque. I applaud Audi/Lambo for driving down its parts prices, and for having scissors doors on one of its cars, but none of that really speaks to the general perception among the public that a Ferrari is the pinnacle of sports cars.

Honestly, I would be embarrassed to drive a Murcielago. Yes, they do 211mph, which can be useful (...), but you really are screaming to world: LOOK AT ME!!! I WANT ATTENTION!!! I HAVE A LOT OF MONEY!!! I WEAR EXPENSIVE LEATHER PANTS!!!

Obviously there are some Ferrari owners like that, but frankly a lot of the Ferraris I see are in muted colors, and cars like a 575M are beautiful but somehow tasteful at the same time. Look at Lambo and it's all orange, hydra green metallic, yellow, etc.

I think you've got it backwards, in other words. Aspiring gods need scissor doors, lime green metallic paint, etc. Affluent car guys want to be a part of the Ferrari legend.

 

Thanks for the above comment!!!
Audihenry, I am a member of the Ferrari Club and local Audi Club and have participated in driving events with both. I have been to local corvette club meetings. I will join the Porsche Carolina Club this week. And guess what...I don't own a Ferrari or an Audi. When I attend track events, I meet all sorts of "carguys" driving all sorts of cars...the vast majority are simply nice people. Like all car owners, the ferrari owners I have met come from all walks of life--some very well off, but most are probably middle class owners of older model ferraris. Regardless, I have not had any negative experiences with any of these people. It seems to me that jerks are present everywhere, not isolated to drivers of certain marques or car clubs.

I don't think any of the Ferrari owners I know bought their car to say "Heh look at me". Like me, I suspect that most owners test drove a few cars and got the one they liked the best. To be honest, I (and others) often get tired of all the attention our cars receive...most of the time I just want to "drive" and not have people pulling up beside me, asking me how much I spent, or attempting to challenge me on public roads. Another case in point, one of my best friends is a ferrari owner and also owns an Audi RS4, which I think is the best sports sedan on the planet!
There's an old saying, "When you assume you make an ass out of you and me".
My advice...go out to a real ferrari event and meet some of these people...you'll be pleasantly surprised. Most are "carguys" who appreciate many different marques including Audi, BMW, Porsche, Lotus, etc.