How to wash/clean/polish a Ferrari !

MATT360 · Jun 24, 2007

I'm using the products that come in the Ferrari care kit with great results, has anyone else had any experience with these products ?
Anyone got any tips on the leather care products in the kit as I have not got round to using them yet.
P.S the leather case is pretty cool too

absent · Jun 24, 2007

I just drive to the local carwash,that's what they do with your beloved cars at the Factory, too.

V-TWELVE · Jun 24, 2007

absent, I don't think you get it. No real car guy or girl would ever do that.

absent · Jun 24, 2007

V-TWELVE said: ↑

absent, I don't think you get it. No real car guy or girl would ever do that.
Click to expand...

Well,I've seen brand new Ferraris coming back from shake up test drives (done in the rain and sleet),being washed in a standard mechanical carwash before being shipped to their new owners.
I enjoy them for what they are,great driving machines and I'm not going to get anal about their "shine".
But,
to each their own....

tomkandy · Jun 25, 2007

absent said: ↑

Well,I've seen brand new Ferraris coming back from shake up test drives (done in the rain and sleet),being washed in a standard mechanical carwash before being shipped to their new owners.
I enjoy them for what they are,great driving machines and I'm not going to get anal about their "shine".
But,
to each their own....
Click to expand...

Little do you know, that car wash is actually loaded with Zymol Royale

Cavallino Aficionado · Jun 26, 2007

Hey guys. I'll rasie a glass to Griot's... take a look at griots.com
I suppose it helps I live near thier warehouse and have attended a couple application studios performed on F-cars. I've come to enjoy and trust all thier products. From leather care, exterior care and cleaning, cleaning instruments/ gadgets, r/o polisher, microfiber towels, and of coarse speed shine (to name a few)!

Ciao`
Brian

vungul · Jul 5, 2007

tropicaldetail said: ↑

Please don't tell me I'm wrong. You are clueless and only repeating what somebody who has no knowledge is telling you. There are people who would argue human anatomy with a doctor. Most older body shop guys give some of the worst, uninformed opinions on car care. There are so many holes in your orginal statement that I left untouched because I didn't want to turn this into a back and forth thread, but you telling me I am wrong when you have no knowledge of what you are speaking about is funny to me.

Example, wash with a pressure washer? Horrible idea for several reasons. One, most Ferrari's (particularly older models) are not the best built cars on the road and are prone to leaking. You are forcing water into places it should go.

Second, would you take your car to a sand blaster to clean it. Nope, but that is what you are doing when you force high pressure against the dirt on the surface. Water is not a very lubricating fluid, in and of itself (which is why it is mixed with soap) so the pressure you hit the car with is actually abrading the dirt against the surface of your paint.

Third, would you use high pressure to wash a car with fading paint. You would take a pressure washer to the orginal paint on a 250 GTO? I hope not. Its a very aggressive process that stresses the paint and older orginal paint would be prone to flaking off. If you are washing your car, you should always use the least aggressive methods possible, not something aggressive, just because you can.

As far as your paint being flawless, I doubt it. Many of my customers have made the same claim as yours, and when I inspected thier paint under halogen lights, the paint was far from flawless. If you would post a picture of your black Corvette with the sun reflecting on the surface, I would take this more seriously. Of course, I would ask you to wipe the surface with rubbing alcohol first, to remove any silicones and oils that most body shops use to mask imprefections in the paint surface.

Soap is used to lubricate the water and prevent marring from rinsing. Many of the older bodyshop guys are behind the times and say that washing with soap can strip wax, dry out paint, ect... This was true 20 years ago, but the world moves on and most auto wash soaps are ph balanced and actually add to the protection on the paint. Soap is a lubricate the water by breaking surface tension and help encase dirt particles so they can be safely floated away from the surface, instead of aggressively blasted off and abraded against the paints surface.

You talk about telltale washmitt marks, those are not from mitts. The only marks in your paint come from materials harder then the paint surface itself (not mitts). If you get marks from washing with a mitt, then the problem is your washing technique, not the mitts fault.

Again you mentioned soap removes wax. Perhaps a small amount (unmeasurable amount since wax is a few molecules thick when bonded) but much less then the abbrasive nature of pressure washing a vehicle. Infact, as a test, we have stripped sealant from paint by using a pressure washer.

Please understand that I am not knocking the bodyshop guy. But his priorites are painting cars (and from your praise he is amazing at it) not caring for the paint after being painted. I am an expert in paint correction and paint care. Its apples to oranges.
Click to expand...

I totally agree with Ronnie. Buddy you may be in the detail business, but in this case, you have no idea how wrong you are. I have first hand experience in working with Premier Auto Sports and can vouch for their fine quality and the process they recommend to maintain the fine quality of the paint finish

rwk360 · Jul 6, 2007

tropicaldetail said: ↑

Proper washing techniques for modern scratch senstive clearcoats...

Products Needed

-2 five gallon buckets, each with a gritguard in the bottom (gritguard.com I think)

-high quality car soap (my favorites include Meguiars' NXT or Gold Glass, Mothers Califorina Gold, Zaino Z7, TurtleWax Plat.)

-high quality sheep skin wash mitt (the Eurow brand from Walmart of all places are some of the best on the market)

-several low quality or old wash mitts

-a mild wheel cleaner (EagleOne makes a nice tire/rim cleaner that is very mild and works well, P21's Wheel Gel is the best on the market)

-assorted brushes (I like using an old paint brush, with the brissles cut to about 2 inches in length for rims)

-210 mph leaf blower

-high quality waffle weave microfiber towel

Process

Fill one five gallon bucket to the brim with clean water and the other five gallon bucket with the mixed solution of soap and water. A good tip is to fill the soapy bucket with half of water first, add the soap, then fill the rest of the way. This helps prevents the suds from spilling out of the bucket before you get it full of water. Also, make sure you follow the manufactor's directions, regarding the ratio of soap:water. A common mistake is to add way too much soap, which makes the soap difficult to rinse away with out leaving a film behind.

Another trick I use it to clean the rims, tires first. Since this process can be time consuming, it the rinse water from drying on the cars paint and causing water spots. Spray each wheel with a gentle wheel cleaner, let sit for 30 seconds, then use a brush or cut paint brush to mildly aggitate the cleaner. Then rinse the wheel completely clean. Do each wheel individually. If you are aiming to clean the tires also, you can use a product like Eagle One tire and wheel cleaner which does a great job of cleaning the tire as well as the rim. You can also you an all purpose cleaner.

An alternate method is to clean the wheels using a seperate bucket with soapy water and an a brush and old mitt. If you have have applied a sealant to your rims previously, even the most gentle wheel cleaners will remove the protection. So just go around and clean the rim with the soapy water (if there is sealant on the rim, the brake grim will clean off very easily anyways) and rinse clean. It is also a good time to clean the underside of the body and wheel well lips (inside the fenders).

Now evaluate the surface. Is there a lot of tar or bugs? If there is, then this will have to be removed before washing the car because if your mitt picks up bug remains, they will be dragged across the paint, which is how swirls and marring is introduced into the paint. A good product is Stoner's Tarminatior. Spray on bug remains and any road tar and let sit for a minute. Use a terry cloth to blot and pick the remains off the paint (don't wipe back and forth). After the major grim and been pulled from the surface, vs. wiped on it, we start our rinse.

Spend a good deal of time rinsing the all the areas of the car. Try remove as much dirty and grime as possible to reduce the risk of marring later.

Now its time to start washing. Start with the roof and work your way down using as much water solution as you can get on the surface. The goal here is to literally flood the surface with soapy solution to float away the dirty. Use a lot of solution, frequently dunking the mitt in solution. Wipe the mitt in a back and forth direction, working the length of the paint. Flip the mitt often to reduce the chance of the mitt picking up dirty and scratching your paint.

After cleaning a section, its time to rinse the mitt out, again to remove any dirty that is getting into the fibers of the paint. This is where the second bucket comes in. Dunk the mitt in the bucket and swish it around (if you have a grit guard, gently rub the mitt over the grates of the grit guard) then squeeze out the water before dunking back into the soapy solution. Keep the mitt clean and you greatly reduce the swirling in your scratch sensitive clear coat.

Another quesiton is how much should you clean before you rinse that section. If you mixed the solution properly, you can cover a lot of ground before having to rinse. However its best to err on the side of caution, as you don't want the water drying on the car and leaving soap scum on the surface. Also, the weather effects this if you have to wash outside. On a cloudy, mild day you can cover a lot of ground. If you have the unfortunate luck of washing in the sun, then you have to rinse frequently to keep the water from drying up and to keep the surface cool. Use good judgement, and if you are unsure, rinse the soap off frequently.

I like to wash down to the dirt line of the car, and what I mean by this is every car as a beltline that collects more road grime and dirt. If you where to wash from the bottom up, you would risk dragging the dirt over the paint and increase the chances of swirling. Once you get the top of the half of the car washed (down to the dirt belt line), either switch to another mitt or use the same mitt but rinse frequently in the clean water bucket) to clean the dirtier areas. Then rinse clean.

Now its time for the final rinse before drying. A good tip is to open the nozzle to full blast and kink the hose to cut the water pressure down to a gentle stream. Water has a natural viscosity and is attracted to water. Use this to your advantage and gentle stream the water over the paint starting high and working low. The sheeting water will literally sitting water with it, sheeting the surface almost dry! You can remove as much as 75 percent of the water on the surface using this method.

For drying, I like to use a high speed leaf blower to blow as much water off the surface and crevices where water hides. Start from the top down, blowing as much water as you can off. The goal here is reduce the amount of wiping you do with your towel. You guessed it, any time you wipe anything against your car, you increase the risk of marring (its getting old, me repeating that, huh?). Once you removed the majority over water, you can go over your car with a waffle weave micro fiber to absorb the removing water.

A good trick is to blot the paint try rather then wiping across it. Despite our best efforts, we may still have some water that has dried on the surface and left water spots. Give your towel a mist of quick detailer spray to lube it up and to clean any water marks that may have formed. Once the car is dry, clean your windows, dress your tires, fire up the motor, and go enjoy it!
Click to expand...

Great and very thorough description. Thought I was too old to learn new tricks, but never thought of doing the wheels first- great idea. Also, I use my compressor with a straight "blasting" tip instead of a leaf blower to achieve the same water removal from crevices, trim, etc. On other tip- never wash in the sun (or high drying winds like we frequently have in Reno, NV- virtually impossible to move fast enough w/ wash/rinse cycle to prevent water spotting unless you're lucky enough to have an assistant to keep hosing the car as you go, to keep it wet while you finich washing). Also, I favor Griot's carwash concentrate- expensive, but you don't use that much. Happy detailing!

BT · Jul 6, 2007

tropicaldetail said: ↑

Here a couple photos to prove my point. Case in point one, the first photo shows a direct sunlight shot of well cared for Maserati that was described to be in perfect condition. However, you can see swirl marks in the paint. The second photo is the car after being expertly polished and wiped with alcohol to make sure the paint correct was perfect. That is perfect, flawless paint. The third picture is the car after being properly detailed, that is all surfaces have been polished level so the paint is super reflective and looks much better then it did when it rolled of the factory showroom.

The fourth picture is the reflection of the sun on a not perfect surface. The 5th picture is after the hood has been polished, you can make out the crystal clear reflection of the sun with no refraction or distortion. The six picture is the car outside in the morning, you can see how well an older paint job and look when it has been polished to perfection.
Click to expand...

I would agree with Todd. That 348 looks great!
BT

AML225 · Jul 6, 2007

Don't own a Ferrari so I'm sure that will void my opinion to some BUT I would never use a pressure washer on my car. It's like using a flamethrower to light a cigarette. I just prefer a much more intimate experience with my car. ;-)

PhilNotHill · Jul 6, 2007

I thought I was meticulous about cleaning my car. After reading this thread I realize I am just a clean car wanabe.

I like the leaf blower idea too.

thanks-

msgsobe · Jul 6, 2007

Great write up Todd, thanks. As for the negative comments, reminds me of a story. OJ was in a restaurant recently and a woman ran up to him screaming "Murderer!!' he calmly looked at her and said, "you're entitled to your opinion." keep up the good work.

tonosi · Jul 6, 2007

Hey Ya'll.
As per the pressure washer discussion. I would not do it myself, but watch this:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=zIZHibe67A0

PhilNotHill · Jul 6, 2007

tonosi said: ↑

Hey Ya'll.
As per the pressure washer discussion. I would not do it myself, but watch this:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=zIZHibe67A0
Click to expand...

Spends more time with his cars than his girlfriend? Not possible, is it?

SATX67 · Jul 13, 2007

V-TWELVE said: ↑

I have seen people wash their cars with pressure washers, and know it can be done safely. I am just worried that someone will take their 3000psi, 11hp Honda pressure washer with the wrong tip to their car with catastrophic results after reading this thread. I would also use caution when spraying a repainted surface. But hey, if you know your equipment and like the results, there is no reason to change. Everyone has thier own system. This should give people just starting out, some options.
Click to expand...

I wash all my clients with a pressure washer and no damage at all.

Hand wash with a sponge I get exclusivley from Greece.

Hand dry with the "Absorber"
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pippo · Jul 17, 2007

A car wash for a ferrari?? Man, its not like its a mini van or something.

Lloyd · Jul 17, 2007

The key is to lead a good team.
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Todd Helme · Jul 18, 2007

^I think that picture ends all discussion!!!

ross · Sep 9, 2007

further question to the detailers....the 512 got zymoled recently. but the car needs washing again. is there any kind of special treatment required in order not to rub off the zymol? or do i just wash it following your instructions (which i have printed for reference).

Bullfighter · Sep 9, 2007

Probably a minor contribution to this thread, but I noticed no one had posted this:

Buy one of those rubber/soft plastic-covered nozzles for your hose. It's only a matter of time before the nozzle touches the paint or wheels, and the sound of heavy brass hitting your paint is not one of the nicer things you'll ever hear.

Air_Cooled_Nut · Sep 9, 2007

Video and picture observations:
Cars are being washed in the sun. Pressure washers are being used (and I would assume at a low pressure ), however, all the cars shown are fairly modern. From the video, claying was done after washing.

k-diddy · Sep 11, 2007

tropicaldetail said: ↑

Please don't tell me I'm wrong. You are clueless and only repeating what somebody who has no knowledge is telling you. There are people who would argue human anatomy with a doctor. Most older body shop guys give some of the worst, uninformed opinions on car care. There are so many holes in your orginal statement that I left untouched because I didn't want to turn this into a back and forth thread, but you telling me I am wrong when you have no knowledge of what you are speaking about is funny to me.

Example, wash with a pressure washer? Horrible idea for several reasons. One, most Ferrari's (particularly older models) are not the best built cars on the road and are prone to leaking. You are forcing water into places it should go.

Second, would you take your car to a sand blaster to clean it. Nope, but that is what you are doing when you force high pressure against the dirt on the surface. Water is not a very lubricating fluid, in and of itself (which is why it is mixed with soap) so the pressure you hit the car with is actually abrading the dirt against the surface of your paint.

Third, would you use high pressure to wash a car with fading paint. You would take a pressure washer to the orginal paint on a 250 GTO? I hope not. Its a very aggressive process that stresses the paint and older orginal paint would be prone to flaking off. If you are washing your car, you should always use the least aggressive methods possible, not something aggressive, just because you can.

As far as your paint being flawless, I doubt it. Many of my customers have made the same claim as yours, and when I inspected thier paint under halogen lights, the paint was far from flawless. If you would post a picture of your black Corvette with the sun reflecting on the surface, I would take this more seriously. Of course, I would ask you to wipe the surface with rubbing alcohol first, to remove any silicones and oils that most body shops use to mask imprefections in the paint surface.

Soap is used to lubricate the water and prevent marring from rinsing. Many of the older bodyshop guys are behind the times and say that washing with soap can strip wax, dry out paint, ect... This was true 20 years ago, but the world moves on and most auto wash soaps are ph balanced and actually add to the protection on the paint. Soap is a lubricate the water by breaking surface tension and help encase dirt particles so they can be safely floated away from the surface, instead of aggressively blasted off and abraded against the paints surface.

You talk about telltale washmitt marks, those are not from mitts. The only marks in your paint come from materials harder then the paint surface itself (not mitts). If you get marks from washing with a mitt, then the problem is your washing technique, not the mitts fault.

Again you mentioned soap removes wax. Perhaps a small amount (unmeasurable amount since wax is a few molecules thick when bonded) but much less then the abbrasive nature of pressure washing a vehicle. Infact, as a test, we have stripped sealant from paint by using a pressure washer.

Please understand that I am not knocking the bodyshop guy. But his priorites are painting cars (and from your praise he is amazing at it) not caring for the paint after being painted. I am an expert in paint correction and paint care. Its apples to oranges.
Click to expand...

Do you know who Premier Motorsports is? Before you bash on someone you should get your facts together. Premier is the best Ferrari body shop in the U.S.! Hands down. I understand when you get the 456 that is on your wish list you would not want to use the pressure washer because you sound like the kind of guy that would not spend the $$ for a good 456 with the window fix. Just think Ronnie360spider washing his 360 spider and new vette at home and you going from clients houses to detail there cars. If you were in L.A. I would pay you to detail my dumpster at the office and watch Ronnie360spider use a pressure washer on his 360!!!

BT · Sep 11, 2007

Seems to me that Tropical detail is just explaining in detail what the downside is to pressure washing a car as opposed to using a soap mixture and keeping lots of water to float the dirt off. You sound angry. I can tell you that Todd is way above washing some dumpster. And knocking someone (who is making a good living doing many of us in Florida a great service) because he does not have the cash to buy a 360 seems childish to me. I guess my 348 would not be up to your standards either. But it suits me just fine.

BT
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DenisB · Sep 11, 2007

I haven't read all 3 pages of this thread but.. is this person refering to washing with a dish detergent type of soap for the car?? just wondering

sken · Sep 11, 2007

DenisB said: ↑

I haven't read all 3 pages of this thread but.. is this person refering to washing with a dish detergent type of soap for the car?? just wondering
Click to expand...

It started off being pretty helpful and then everyone started shooting each other with pressure washers and zingers. By the way, don't use dish soap, it's bad for the waxes and the finish over time.

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