Coolant burp/bleed help ... am I panicking?

Ok, I just bought my 84 308 QV, and I still havent got to know the car yet. I have a few questions.

1) When you "burb" the air out of the bleed valve/bolt (top of thermostat housing), how much air is supposed to come out, and should antifreeze come out?
I ran my car to warmed up but not hot, and parked in the shade then opened up the bleed bolt (2 turns or so). I got very minor hissing, maybe for a minute or so, but it was intermittent, fizz fizz.... pause.... fizz..... pause.... fizz fizz, that sort of thing. It NEVER spit out a "stream" of antifreeze. Does that sound normal?

2) What should be the panick point watching the temp gauges?
After burbing the coolant, I ran the car for 10 miles +/- in slow "crusing" speeds 45 - 60 MPH with ambient temp around 95 degrees (altitude = 5280 ft), but did I get stuck at some stop signs/lights so there were periods of slow stop-and-go and I also revving the engine to 6500 RPMs once or twice just to see if it affected the temp. The temp in the car got past the mid mark (180?) and was just shy of the 3rd mark, it NEVER got to the 3/4 position and never came close to approaching the top mark at all (250?)

3) Oil pressue at idle when the car was that hot was just under the 1st mark past zero (just under 1/4 way).
Is this normal?

I saw the previous thread about temp in AZ, I'm at a higher altitude but it was a lower temp ( http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=159665 )

At what point should I stop the car and let it cool down? What gets to the danger point? I just bought it and I want to drive it but I dont want to hurt it by not taking precautions.

Am I panicking for no reason?

Attached below is the best pic (lowsy camera) I could get of my dash at the final part of my drive, ambient temp = 95 degress, stop and go traffic.

SIDE NOTE: There is blue "homemade gasket" material outside/around the thermosat housing clearly used as the gasket. I know this is not "oem", but should I be concerned with a thermostat prob?

James in Denver

PS The good thing is, no oil leaks at all, I could see seepage under then engine, very slight seepage, but no drops on the garage floor, at least not yet.
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An ace ferrari mechanic once showed me how to burp (bleed) the air out of the system of my 1980 4001..The car must be running..open the bleed screw slightly until air or coolant comes out..once the bubbling or hissing stops..close it and repeat several times until only coolant comes out in a steady steam for 3-4 seconds..drive the car..this techniquemust be done several times until you eliminate all of the air pockets..patience is the key here..air in the system is what is making your car run hot..rather than just low coolant..enjoy..Jacques..

 

James,
You are panicking for no reason. What you see is pretty normal for a QV on a hot Denver day. That temp needle definitely will climb when stopped in traffic but if everythin is working OK, it should not overheat. If you look in your manual, it says what temp to stop at. If memory serves (I sold my last QV 2002) the water can go to 235-240 and the oil to abut 260-270. You should also bleed air from the top of the radiator. There is a screw there for the purpose. I believe there is a diagram in your manual. BTW, if you have not read your manual yet, DO IT. There is lots of useful info there on the care and feeding of your car. While on the subject of 308 cooling, the radiator caps often go bad leading to coolant coming out the overflow pipe. This is a $5 part at NAPA or other store. Do not get a Ferrari cap, they are sometimes bad right out of the box not to mention about $35.

Dave

 

From what you are saying, I dont think you have a problem. As long as you dont go over the 240 F mark you should be ok. If your temps come down after you start moving then you are ok.

As for purging air, yes use the bleed screw on the radiator, let out till you get coolant coming out in a steady streem... may have to do a couple of times... also you should bleed it from the top of the thermostat housing, if there is air in the system it will get trapped there.

BEFORE you bleed the system make sure your have plenty of coolant in your overflow tank. if you suck all the coolant into the system while running sometime you can introduce air that way. ... I alwas kept my water level just below the seem...

The 308 have two cooling week spots, rad and airflow. mostly the pump gets that coolant flowing fast, but the radiator is just not that efficient for todays clogged roads, and the fans dont always push as much air as is needed... I would reccomend putting in a temp switch that turns on the fans at like 175F, so your temps dont get too hi when in traffic.

If you are truly overheating the oil temp willl soar... if it overheats you can warp the block, head or distort the head gasket.... the Ferrari motors are pretty durable and will take lots of punishment, but also take lots of $$$ to fix when abused for long!

From what you are describing I dont think you have much of a problem, seems normal to me. I would have your radiator pressure tested at a good rad shop, just to make sure its holding pressure... thats one major weak point over time... also they can get clogged up, which is easy to flush out.

Best of luck! and Congrats!!!

Tom

 

Just to chime in with agreement here, sounds pretty normal. My car will sit some ways below the middle line while cruising, and creep up to a bit above the middle line when stopped in traffic on a hot day.

As to bleeding, that fizzy girgle you got was exactly right, just keep the bleed screw open until that turns to solid coolant flow. Make sure the car is up to temp before you try to bleed, so the thermostat is open. And make sure you've opened the heater levers fully to get any air that's sitting in the heating circuit.

 

Excelent advice! Make sure you have enough coolant in the expansion tank before doing so.
I did exactly that three months ago to my 328, bleeding at the radiator and thermostat. Car runs great, always below 90ºC (194F), even in traffic !

 

the cooling setup on the 3x8's is a closed circuit one. if you look at the expansion tank you'll notice a line running from the tank to the crossover pipe on the engine, this hose is above the water line and thus has air in it. bleed the system as stated above, i.e, rad tank screw and 'T' stat bolt, also open the heater valves by setting the cabin temp to full hot. there will always be a bit of air in the system do to it's design.

 

A Former Ferrari tech also told me that it helps if you raise the back of the car, when doing the purging.... also helps when you fill the catch tank.

 

But don't raise the rear if you are bleeding the front!

 

But the temp of my car did not appear to come down when moving, at least not much. After the "stop and go" traffic, I went steady 55 MPH for 3-5 miles, the temp still sat at just below the 3/4 mark as in my picture.

Again, thanks for the help everyone on the burping process, I'll do more of that and see if it helps.

BTW, the fans DO kick on, I hear them, but I'm not sure at what temp. Someone recommended a lower temp switch, I might have to try that.

James in Denver

 

Can someone post a pic of the bleed screw for the T-stat housing please.

I've got the radiator bleed thing down but can't find the T-stat one.

Thanks

 

Does this help ?
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Yes

Thank you very much!!!

 

James, bleed, bleed, and more bleeding. sorry to be so redundant but I did that to my 328, alternating from front (radiator) then to thermostat housing (back)... it's time consuming, but well worth it! My car ran much cooler, BUT even after all that, later I happen to have some work done and Dave Helms pulled vacuum on the system, and yes there was still some air.. Vacuum is best but I don't have those tools so I just "bleed"...
Keep the expansion tank at the suggested level, place cap back on, let her warm up & start bleeding...watch your guages and monitor when fans kick on. I too am in Colorado & I use the 195 F, (I think, not near car now) and that works fine for here. Hope this helps. pm me if you have more ???....

 

Do you keep the expansion tank cap on or off when bleeding??? I've always had it off till the air comes out and then put the cap on.

 

Take it from me, putting a vacuum on a 308 is a bad bad bad bad idea unless every hose in it including the heater hoses are brand new. TRUST ME!

 

My GT4 overheated quite spectacularly the other weekend due to a split coolant hose on top of the engine underneath the carbs.

After replacing the hose and filling up with coolant, I was still getting some intermittent water leakage from the replaced pipe at one end. The odd thing was that when the engine was running the temp was a steady 90, fans kicked in and no leaks. However when I shut the engine off it would start leaking from the pipe and was obviously under a lot of pressure. Releasing the expansion tank cap would release a load of steam and coolant.

However, I've run it up to temp now a few times, releasing the pressure and steam each time and now it appears to no longer leak, either when running or if shut off when hot.

Is this likely to be down to an air pocket, or did I just overfill it with coolant?

 

Thanks for catching that!! true I don't know the overall mechanicals of his car, I'm thinking along the condition of my car... I stand corrected and agree w/birdman...

 

Most if not all of the coolant hoses "on the outside" have been replaced, I do not think any of the hoses going to/from the heater core have been replaced.

I'm bleeding, bleeding, bleeding it Mike, so thanks. The air bled out of the front radiator for about 60 seconds.

Last check here's the stats:
Ambient Temp: 82 degrees +/- at night, no sun
Drive distance: 30 - 35 miles
Drive style: Mostly interstate and rural highway (I-25 and Sante Fe/85), no high revs/slow acceleration/grandpa style
Temp guage description:
When driving on the interstate at 75 MPH, the temp was about 1 needle width under the mid-mark (195?), but when I turned onto rural highway at 55 MPH, the temp rose and stayed at 1 needle over 195.

INTERESTING SUB-POINT: Bleed the system when I returned home with the engine RUNNING and the guage never soared, it was at or just about 195. Fans did turn.

ALSO: Nothing came out of the thermostat bleed valve, nothing at all, no air and no anti-freeze.

I'm going to continue to bleed.

QUESTION: Whats the correct antifreeze/coolant mixture, 50/50?

James in Denver

 

I use 20/80 antifreeze to water, but I use distilled water only. But my car never gets left in freezing temperatures.

 

Lots of threads and debate on what mixture to use.

I use 50/50. In CO. the cold can sneak up on ya. I'd think you'd want 50/50 even in the summer just in case. Distilled water.

I know you had to be freaking out there a little. You take your time to get the right car and then this happens. At least the temps are coming down and you've gotten over that feeling of being scared to touch this beautiful strange thing. Took me months to get to that point.

I looked at a dozen cars before i bought mine and almost all had some cooling issues at one point or another. Saw lots of re-cored and aftermarket radiators as well as bigger cooling fans. Almost every car had a replaced water pump in the last few years.

Just know it's a common issue and alot of people have had to deal with it. Your getting the problem solved it looks like.

 

The thermostat bleed valve doesn't have a hole in it like the radiator one, so you have to take it fully out to bleed it. How you're supposed to do this and get it back in when the engine is at temperature is beyond me. I've just ignored the thermostat bleed. Some people have drilled their's out. I think Verell was working on making some up for people.

 

The t-housing bleed screw on my 328 allows me to loosen it & I wait until fluid weeps out, then re-tighten. I never had to completely remove it.

I too use 50-50 mix (green antifreeze) and distilled water.