The Coughlan Affidavit

you're most welcome your majesty

I was using the phrase metaphorically though

 

The bank is responsible, because it's their employee that embezzled the money, and the banks clients have a contract with the bank, not the employee. Thus the bank would take legal proceedings against the employee to recover their lost funds.

If McLaren are responsible for ALL their employees actions then so are Ferrari. Stepney worked for Ferrari and started this fiasco, thus Ferrari based on stupid unbinding (surely) rule (Article 3.1 states it is the responsibility of the team that each member abides by the rules and regulations of the FIA) is just as liable in bringing F1 into disrepute.

Thus you cannot punish McLaren for not controlling it's employees without punishing Ferrari. If either had proper control over their employees this would not have happened.

And ...

Correct, but again yes the McLaren employee should not have obtained these documents, and McLaren should have immediately raised it with the FIA, thus McLaren did not CONTROL their employee correctly, BUT a Ferrari employee leaked the documents in the first place. Thus if the only thing the FIA can nail McLaren for is Article 3.1, then they also have to do something against Ferrari for not controlling it's employee.

This is why I believe nothing will result. Maybe both McLaren AND Ferrari will loose say 10 points each to "tell them off", but keep it pretty much status quo.

On top of this, it cannot be against the sport for a team to know something about another teams car or tactics. They all watch the unveilings of the new cars and study photographs, etc. thus ALL teams know a heck of a lot about every serious competitors cars. Thus if the FIA was to come down on this, they would effectively be coming down on ALL teams, infact this would be a comment regarding all levels of motorsport. Heck I used to wander the paddock at club level taking in all I could about competitors cars ... heck if I saw a good idea, I'd go home and see if it could work on my car. That cannot be illegal!

This is far more complicated than just telling McLaren off. If they do, McLaren will appeal, and so on for years to come ... will be like yachting with the Americas cup. In the end the legal proceedings will do far more harm to the sport than this current issue.
Pete

 

no, but if one of your opponents team members sent you an email saying that if you protest at the next meet about the compression ratio of Fred's car (and you know the $500 inspection fee will hold up!!) so you win the main prize of $5000, THAT is illegal, or at the very least unethical and obviously against a sporting code

What you should do in a situation like that is take the information to the sporting body controlling the sport and have them check the information out with the team member blowing the whistle.

If all information is true then the whistleblower will lose his job and the opponent will lose points or be DSQ'd

To extrapolate this to the Stepneygate affair McL should have taken this information to the FIA IMMEDIATELY and asked for a ruling on the floor and SHOULD also have taken the information when received IMMEDIATELY to the FIA for the return to Ferrari, did they ??!! No, when they got found out they "suspended" Coughlan, when Ferrari found out about Stepney they SACKED him, if McL come out of this with no penalty the floodgates will be open

Peter Windsor stated that industrial espionage has been going on all over the place but has only come to the surface recently

 

John,

Can see your point, but again it all comes down to did McLaren as a company/race team know.

I'll be happy for LH to loose 10 points , got to make it hard for the new chaps ya know
Pete

 

Pete,
OK, Ferrari had one engineer, that allegedly transferred the stolen information, to one engineer at McLaren...at that point the balance is pretty much even in some peoples' perspectives.

BUT, when you throw in...

the floorboard protest, the allegations of: months of knowing about the documents, three additional team members, including administrative personnel, not reporting it and telling Coughlan to destroy the evidence...

McLaren has a huge problem, and rightfully so, when the rules committee meets, IMO.

As the injured party, I believe Ferrari has little to fear, in the coming proceedings, unless it is proven that Ferrari framed McLaren.

Regards,
Bill

 

Not required Pete....

Age and treachery, will always triumph over youth and skill.

 

This was discussed in another thread - UK employment laws are tough ones - likely until Coughlan is declared guilty by court - McLaren wouldn't have a basis to fire him. If the rumor that management of McLaren knew about documents is true - than McLaren can't fire Coughlan for the possession of these documents.

I really think that lawyers who knows way more than we do alredy looked in to this matter.

 

how many people need to know before it is classified as the team ?

head designer, MD, several others said get rid of it, .... hmm looks like more than just the disgruntled employee .....

 

I worked in the UK for 2 years and saw 2 guys dismissed instantly for 'conflict of interest' where they used competitor information in a tender response to maintain the company's integrity, that was 10 years ago though

 

We don't know that this is true, this is only the allegations of Coughlan.

McLaren claims that noone other than Coughlan knew of the documents until the search of Coughlan's home. So either Coughlan is lying or McLaren is. Do you have any specific knowledge that McLaren is lying?

 

look you dumb labrat and McL apologist, there have been several URLs posted with this information , stop trying to argue for the sake of making yourself look like a goose ... we all know you are one, you win .. Honk honk

 

**** you.

 

and we descend deeper into the childish response from the McL apologist

show us this supposed Ferrari you own

 

We know...Senna3xWC = LIAR

 

At the end of the day Ferrari's intellectual property was in the possession of McLaren's chief engineer without Ferrari's consent; whether it was used or not will only serve as a mitigating factor in administering a punishment. FIA will detract points; there will be no race bans or stripping McLaren of all their points...FIA will save face by dispensing punishment and conveniently the points race will be tightened up with 7 races to go. My 2 cents...

 

Gotta wonder what one has to say to get banned from here. Cant get much worse than this.

 

Worry about yourself

 

Ok, really glad to see this crap has spilled over into another thread.

I guess my gentle persuading isn't gonna get it done.

ONE MORE OUTBURST, OR RETALIATORY POST IN HERE BY ANY OF THE GUYS PISSING ON EACH OTHER HERE, AND YOU ALL GET A TIME OUT ON THE STEPS.

Now knock it the HELL OFF!!

This is racing here, not a coffee klatch where you're fighting over the $4.00 check.

So, talk racing, talk politely, don't circumvent the profanity filters, or you're getting smacked. (Virtually, of course)

Dave (last warning so I hope you're paying attention) M.

 

Dave, I agree completely, plus we only have one more day to go before the whole FIA tribunal thing plays out.

 

Done.

Sorry, Dave.

 

#**&%@+!!!

 

Ah come on, I was looking forward to witnessing a vertual smack!