MCLARENGATE

That's one interpretation but from my reading RD isn't admitting anything.

The FACT however remains that without the blueprints how did they know about the flexi floor, Brake balance set up and rear diffuser?

Hard to imagine the FIA investigating such matters on hearsay evidence without something that would constitute prima facie proof.

Otherwise Charlie Whiting and his team would just be run ragged non stop one would imagine.

 

So he's saying that designing a car is not enhancing the performance? Hard to follow Ronspeak.

So if Coughlan did have Ferrari information about reliability he could have used it.

Who are Kroll? How can Lowe determine that no Ferrari documents were used if he don't know the content of those documents?

So he's saying that the documents themselves were not at McLaren but what does that prove?

This is getting messy.

 

rd is going to be sweating like a hooker in church for a long long !ime

 

This is part of Dennis' statement.
He added: "No team can expect their employees to keep quiet if they suspect - correctly in this case - that their employers are breaching the rules of the sport."
He forgot to add that all whistles have been removed from all the McCheater premises. lol

 

As far as I'm concerned Mclaren is now Ferrari's 4th team on the grid next to STR and Spyker case closed.

 

McLaren Team Principal and CEO Ron Dennis yesterday wrote a lengthy letter to Italian motorsport boss Luigi Macaluso. The President of ACI-CSAI this evening responded. A transcript of his letter is reproduced below.

Mr Ron Dennis...
[Address]

2 August 2007

Dear Mr Dennis,

Article 151c of the International Sporting Code

I refer to your letter of 1 August 2007.

It is apparent from your letter that there is a distinct difference between McLaren’s view of events and that of Ferrari. It therefore seems appropriate for the matter to be reviewed by the International Court of Appeal as decided by the FIA President, Mr. Mosley.

It is not my role nor would it be appropriate for me to answer your various points. It will be for the Court of Appeal to do so.

In any event, I would limit myself to stress that McLaren was found in breach of Article 151c of the International Sporting Code, but nevertheless escaped any penalty. As Mr Mosley indicated in his letter of 31 July 2007, it is important for the World Championship that the correct outcome is reached.
It is clearly in the interest of the sport that the appropriate precedent for dealing with events such as these is set.

At the hearing of the World Motor Sport Council on 26 July 2007, Ferrari was legally represented but attended the meeting merely as an observer. It accordingly did not have sufficient opportunity to present to the Council or ask questions of key individuals involved in this matter in order to test their evidence. A hearing before the International Court of Appeal will allow Ferrari an opportunity to present its evidence and arguments in detail.

Yours sincerely

Luigi Macaluso
The President of ACI-CSAI

CC/ Mr. Max Mosley (President FIA)
Mr. Jean Todt ( CEO Ferrari SpA)
(22184993.01)

 

i hope mercedes buys out mclaren and kick ron dennis arse to the curb. this guy is a low life. someone tell LH to get alonso's tissue box for him.....

 

You would think with all the people posting around here, more people would be asking that question.

 

So lets see if we can get this straight.

Stepney shows Coughlan diagrams (engineering blueprints) of Ferrari's floor, brakes, and rear wing element. Coughlan shows these documents to engineering staff at McBenz and they, in thier own words, analysed the information to prove its accuracy. As these designs were deemed to be "illegal", McBenz saw fit to notify FIA.

But when Coughlan showed more documents regarding the entire car to Mr Taylor and Mr Neale, (engineering staff?) they turned away so as not to even look. I guess no one analysed them to see if they were accurate?

Why hasnt Coughlan been fired?

I will say this. I have no loyalty or patience for bold faced theft and cheating. While cameras are a given around a race track, and its gentleman sport to sneak peeks, espionage and theft are on a far different plane. If it were the other way round, if Ferrari had its hands this dirty, I would be just as angry. And I would be just as ashamed to own one of thier machines. There is no excuse I will tolerate listening too, worth letting McBenz wriggle out of this. If they are proven guilty, as a company, I hope they go away and never return. F1 has survived when others have left, Alfa, Maserati, Jaguar, and it still goes on without them. There just isnt any reason to keep cheaters around just to have race. Its just not worth risking anyone life over. And let me be clear. I dont want McBenz to go away just to leave Ferrari to win. I want to see good competition. I just want to see rules enforced and for people of this calibre to stand tall as honorable men. If its going to be regarded as the top level of racing, it should be the top level of honor and trust as well.

 

damn, I so agree with this from an ethical standpoint

this argument has really come down to are you an honourable person or will you tolerate thieving, lying, spying, etc to enjoy "good racing" ?

It's not tolerated in my industry so why should F1 be different ?

 

Dont be surprise that McCheaters run a little slower this weekend so that they can show the court of appeals that they have gained no advantage.

 

McLaren drivers shielded from the media
Thursday 2nd August 2007

Fantasy F1 - Win a trip to Monaco!
It's not too late, point scoring starts at the Bahrain GP. Click here.

McLaren have withdrawn Fernando Alonso and Lewis Hamilton from press events ahead of the Hungarian Grand Prix.


The World Champion received special permission to miss Thursday's FIA press conference and the British youngster will not 'meet the press' on Friday.


FIA interviewer Bob Constanduros said: "McLaren have asked the FIA to allow Alonso to not show up, and their request has been accepted."


McLaren have not explained the reason for the decision, although it is believed that the Woking-based team are not keen on having the media question their drivers over the ongoing Stepneygate scandal.

END OF ARTICLE

Perhaps RD and the other McCheaters are afraid they'll spill the beans.

 

[ Why hasnt Coughlan been fired?


cause mclaren want to keep paying him so he is much more likely to cover up in return

i bet mclaren is paying his and his wifes legal bill too and therefore can control their lawyers

 

I did say many times, that it would be virtually impossible to prove that they did/did not "use" the information, but I also went on to say that this is entirely spurious to the central issue of the rules infraction or criminal facets.

POSSESSION is the issue, period!

Use and the purpose/intent of use, may modify the penalty levied, but surely not the verdict of GUILTY !!

 

Exactly.


Ferrari has cheated in the past.... MS was a cheater in particular and cheating has always been around in F1 and all other forms of racing.

Never forget: "Cheating" is what the OTHER team does. Your team is only "seeking the unfair advantage" as Mark Donohue put it. Rules are open to interpretation and exploitation and sometimes teams push the envelope too far. Sometimes teams do it on purpose. Sometimes they get caught.... often they do not. The whole reason traction control is legal is because everyone was cheating when it wasn't.

Cheating has always been in racing and probably always will be. Even in SCCA Spec Miata you can bet there is PLENTY of cheating going on!

Ron Dennis is no better or worse than Jean Todt or any other team manager. Its just how the game gets played.



Terry

 

I think that someone needs to clarify for RD what a "whistle blower" is. A "whistler blower" is someone who informs the PROPER authorities of illegal actions by his/her employer. Providing confidential information to a competitor is industrial espionage. If he did receive information from Stepney, as he admits, he had the obligation to inform the FIA, which he didn't.

 

From www.f1-live.com:

http://www.f1-live.com/f1/en/headlines/news/detail/070803162322.shtml

It looks like Stepney disagrees with RD that he told him about the flexifloor....

 

latest:

Briatore is going to the appeal court!...this is getting better or worse?...

as published on F1live.com:


"Briatore, who thinks the scandal is damaging the sport, said earlier this weekend that teams who break the rules should be punished.

"I want to know exactly what is going on," he said. "I believe this story is damaging everybody a little bit, including me... stuff like this is not good for the sponsors or anybody,The matter doesn't concern our team or any employees of our team and we trust in the governing body to make the right decisions."

he´s pissed because he was out of the loop just like FRYED?, or he trully beleives there is something very rothen in Denmark...I mean England?

 

Out of all people involved - Stepney has the less credibility.

 

Absolutely.....In the same sense that a "not guilty" verdict makes OJ Simpson "innocent".

 

This is a follow-up to his other statement also. If you read between-the-lines, he finds it incredulous that McLaren got off without any punishment. If it happens again (in the appeal), the F1 world will change as such ruling opens Pandora's box in terms of 'legal' ways to spy on other teams and acquire documents. He wants to know the FIA's position so that he can use the ruling to Renault's advantage.

 

Renault boss Flavio Briatore has called for McLaren to be excluded from the Formula One world championship over their part in the spy scandal that has rocked the sport.

McLaren have repeatedly denied that they gained any advantage from sacked Ferrari engineer Nigel Stepney providing them with 780 pages of confidential Ferrari information. Last week a World Motorsport Council hearing found it could not be proven that McLaren had benefited from the dossier leaked to them and consequently enforced no penalty on the British team.

But speaking to Italian media here, Briatore criticised that decision and even suggested that McLaren had knowledge of Ferrari data earlier than March this year, the widely accepted start date of the 'Stepney affair'.

Briatore points at McLaren's smooth transition from Michelin tyres to Bridgestone, a change that has caused his own team no end of trouble.

"Last winter, I was saying how lucky McLaren are to be immediately that quick on Bridgestone tyres," Briatore said. "I'm a lucky guy, so it's okay for other people to be as well. We, on the other hand, were in full crisis mode: Michelin's retirement turned out to be a disaster for Renault.
"

"It's evident that they (McLaren) had the data on the weight distribution by Ferrari, who used Bridgestone tyres for almost ten years. That page in the famous stolen dossier would have been enough to save months of work and to find the solution immediately."

Briatore considers Renault an 'injured party' in the spy case that he believes has tainted the 2007 season.

"Yes, and not just for us and Ferrari, but for everyone else. Here is a team that acquired an advantage illegally," he added.

The Italian was just as forthright when asked what sanctions should be taken against McLaren.

"Just read the regulations: for intellectual property theft the punishment is exclusion," he advised.

 

While Briatore is a loose-cannon and ego-maniacal character, I've always liked him for his candor. None of us EVER considered what he is stating here.

If what he's saying is not just pure speculation but based in some fact, my hope of the drivers not being penalized (Hamilton, specifically) is going up in smoke. You can't separate their advantage in building the car using stolen data from that car winning races with stolen data.

 

how you compare pushing sporting rules to the limit or even bending them with cold blooded murder only you and ron dennis himself could