Do you subscribe to the "3 year belt change" rule?

Well, if you really need Brian's advice there's an easy solution - search. I mean if 80% of the questions being asked have been asked before and he commented on all of the big ones previously...his comments are easily found. This is the beauty of forums like this - over the years the contributors will change, and it's up to the new participants to post equally useful info. This is what everyone here should do - as you come across a problem and find a solution, post a detailed explanation of what happened and how it was fixed (with a clear title that is readily found by searching!).

And for the tough problems that aren't easily fixed, we're lucky to still have Dave!

 

+1

Dave is great. I know we done see eye to eye on Brian, but Dave is helpful.

 

I am speechless. If your too ignorant to know why people like Brian have been leaving this site, I wish you luck when the mechanics from Pakled start helping you out. Honestly, if we were given a top technical engineer directly from Ferrari, to come on this site and offer free knowledge, you, and others would argue with him until he left in disgust. I doubt it would take more than a day. How many seconds do you think you would get to criticize Mr. Ferrari before he had you physically thrown out the door of his building? Would you then argue he was a wuss for not handling criticism? Or would you agree that you maybe showed him disrespect? Brian certainly was crass, but anyone on this site who was truly a mechanic had a lot of respect for him. I think Brian felt he deserved more respect, and when he got to the point he felt his expertise was no longer worth wasting his breath, he walked away.

New revised service schedule:

Oil change every 20 months, filter every other change. 0W20 Pennzoil with Fram filter. Its less expensive and offers far better fast starts with no required warm ups for those rapid trips to the grocery store for a pack of smokes so you can get the quick fix of showing off to the crowd in your Ferrari. Drive it like you stole it.

Timing belt. lifetime. Drive until it breaks or snaps and overhaul engine at that time. Saves the expense and downtime of needless service.

Fuel and coolant hose. Lifetime. Replace only as needed, or when engine is out for overhaul/timing belt failure.

Alternative service schedule for maximum return on investment, do nothing. Just drive it until the motor blows and sell it for parts. Buy another and repeat as needed. If the desire to know anything pertinent about the car begins to overtake you, immediately throw the owners manual out the window and drive away at high speed. Absolutely under no circumstances should you ever check any fluid levels, nor should you ever attempt to inquire of any printed material given freely by the factory to find out. All question regarding the car should be left to seasoned factory trained mechanics with a lifetime of experience and knowledge. If they say anything to counter the new revised service schedule, tear them a new one and kick them to the curb. Only a wuss would argue with a Ferrari owner. Find another mechanic.

 

Another good hardrive failure would take of that.

 

I have no idea who Brian is...regardless, if a grown man cannot handle on-line criticism...who needs him. After all, he could just not read the posts...its not like people were berating him face to face...its just words on a computer screen! How weak minded could he be...As far as service is concern, you may have something there. My BB512i went ~21 years before it's first cam belt change. So, if it had been changed every three years at ~$6500 a time, the past owner would have spent ~$45,500...about what an engine rebuild would have cost...

 

Very well said.

 

I would love it if someone who had no experience in contract law came on here and talked all about the ins and outs of contracts based on a couple of outlying deals that they heard about through the grapevine and told you continuously that you didn't know what you were talking about. He or she would argue with you over and over that despite the fact that you've done hundreds or thousands of contracts, and seen all the different ways that they could go wrong, that you really were not thinking clearly about it all. You could quote case law, etc. and it would make no difference as you would still get argued with incessantly. Furthermore, every time you made a post about contracts, he or she would contradict you. Better yet, that person had spent so much time sharing their drivel with the other users that they begin to question you, basically only one who actually had written a contract among them, and favour his or her opinion.

You mean to tell me that you would not grow frustrated and just say "**** it" and go back to saving people's asses at your office by doing great contracts and letting your work speak for itself? Oh, that's right: you wouldn't do that because it's "weak minded."

 

opposing attorneys do that all the time...as do I to them...its not called an adversarial system for nothing... I guess us attorneys' have such thick skin that we have little tolerance for cry baby's that get their itty bitty feelings hurt so bad that they take their toys and run away from the playground and tell mommy how mean everyone has been to them..boo hoo...

 

Yes, it was. And, I also miss the RifleDriver. If anything can bring him back, maybe this thread will do the trick.
__________

Now, back upon the subject of the thread -

I {for just the one} find it absolutely astonishing that any reputable automotive manufacturer cannot provide an engine that will run more than three years (apparantly regardless of the mileage) without REPLACEMENT OF ITS CAMSHAFT DRIVE MECHANISM!!!

Could you imagine an ordinary new Buick, Ford, or Toyota customer being told - OK, now - bring it back in in about 36 months and we will have to pull the engine and replace the timing chain?

There is also the "smell test" about this legend - if Ferrari had really intended this (3 yr rule) to be the case, then why didn't they plainly say so in writing when they actually sold these cars in the first place?

Methinks we have been the victemization of a vast dealer/marketing urban legend conspiricy. Not to say they don't need a wrench at times, but BS is still BS.

Remember this, even the great Brian was often quite contemptuous of the deceit regularly served up by Ferrari North America. Does anyone recall his story of the cars drowned in the Hurricane and then sold as new deliveries?

 

Your analysis is flawed. Replace "opposing attorneys" with "random people on the Internet" and run it again.

I don't quite understand how getting sick of dealing with BS and walking away is getting one's "itty bitty feelings hurt". The cost (aggravation) / benefit (satisfaction at helping) analysis just wasn't working out anymore so he stopped contributing.

 

From what I've read, the majority of the cam belt failures on Ferrari's have been caused by three main reasons: 1) tensioner bearing failure which then caused the belt to fail and BAM!; 2) the cam belt(s) jump a tooth due to "loosing their of shape" so to speak from sitting in one position for long periods of time...like how tires get a flat spot from sitting in one position for long periods of time. ..that loss of shape causes the belt(s) to flop around the pulleys which then results in it skipping a tooth and then BAM!; or 3) leaking cam seals get on the cam belts(s) causing them to deteriorate, fail and BAM ! It seems to me that the first two reasons are mostly due from non-use of what is referred to as garage queens that are not driven at least once a week or so...and, while the cam seal failure can be caused by a defective seal or improper installation, it too can be caused by non-use of the car. So, it seems to me that if we drive our Ferrari's more, we can go longer between cam belt replacements with less risk...

 

being a veteran 328 owner now all of 1 week, i can't help but wonder why in this day of technology
not dreamed of 10yrs. ago, do we continue to fear and loathe at the thought of maintaining our
beloved ferraris.
why indeed. it seems that in this age of kevlar, polyaramid fibers, and similar such materials that
the factory could specify a belt which would easily surpass 100k miles with bearings to match.
better yet, why not a retro design using gm's indestructible double-duplex chain drive which they
refer to as "the silent link" drive component.
given whats been out there forever or use some cutting edge design would alay our fears once and
foreall.

 

Seriously? With all these modern advances in materials and technology, we still have space shuttles that disintegrate on re-entry, foam insulation that wont stick, wings that seperate from aircraft in flight. There is not one engine made today, or at any time in the past, that could go 100K miles without leaks. Okay, that may be simplistic. One could easily put 100K on a car at Daytona in a week or so, and maybe not have it leak anywhere. Doubtful, but entirely possible. But in the normal course of 100K miles, there is usually some time factor involved that extends to years. Many Ferrari's have never even hit 50K miles in 30 years, are you suggesting to run for 60 years without any major service or maintenence?

Could Ferrari put in better bearings, belts? I am sure they could. Can they put in seals that are absolutely guaranteed not to leak? No. Is there a single aircraft that can operate commercially under part 135 that can bypass the FAA required 100 inspection? No. For those who dont know, a 100 hour inspection is identical to an annual inspection. Every rivet, bolt, screw, fastener, line fitting, bulkhead, glass, spar, panel, grommet, seal, gasket, tank, pump, control cable, push rod, hinge, pulley, knob, pin, lever, lightbulb, gauge, instrument, electronic component, antennae, wire connection, door, hydraulic cylinder, seats, seat belts, brakes, tires, anything and everything inside and out is inspected. The engine, prop, and entire engine bay is washed down, checked for leaks, and the engine given a leakdown test. Everything on the airplane is checked and/or readjusted. Anything remotely questionable is repaired. On an airplane operated daily, 100 hours could come every two weeks. And always, every single time, something is found amiss. But you expect a highly stressed car to run forever?

I dont believe, personally, that every three years or 30K miles for major service is overkill for a car of this calibre. A Ford station wagon, who cares? The car will be squished and turned into a Toyota someday and no one will shed a tear. I have seen a few cars posted on Fchat that had majors done after 5 years, and the entire engine bay is absolutely filthy dirty. The block is caked with grease and dirt, they are a total filthy dirty mess. Both my cars came to me that way. This may be acceptable on a Ford station wagon headed for the smelter, but its rediculous and unacceptable on exotic cars IMHO. In other words, there are miriad other reasons to service the thing after a certain amount of time, but mainly its to restore the machine back to like new in both appearance and performance. Luckily with a car, you dont have a government mandated service shedule and have to have a license to work on it. Just a brain. If having an exotic car with a filthy engine long past the time of suggested maintenence is acceptable to some of you, great. But this should not be the goal IMVHPO. Case in point, I have never in my life seen a Harley or custom motorcycle even remotely as filthy as some of the Ferrari's engines ive seen posted, no matter how grungy the bike rider was. Maybe that crowd is more proud of thier antiquated air-cooled V-twin bike than some are of thier exotic car?

 

I have to confess both my Harley engine (18 yrs old & 117K miles) and my 308 engine are filthy . Because of the mileage on the Harley I don't think anyone can argue that I don't take good basic care of my stuff. Part of the problem is that I don't freak out over an oil weep. I just don't seem to have the time. Maybe I'll make a New Year's resolution to be better .

Seamus

 

An engine out $6500+ cam belt service is a little different that keeping your engine and engine bay clean. I detail the engine, engine bay, shocks/suspension, undercarriage...everything on my BB512i at least twice a year...it is a weekend project that takes me almost the entire weekend. But, you do not have to remove the engine and buy a lot of parts and pay a lot of labor for than...just a few dollars worth of cleaning projects and a little of your own labor is all that's needed.

 

Wow........all I can say is.....wow.

And thanks Dave Helms, and other folks that post good info here and have Profiles...LOL!

On a newer car like a CS of course I'd go with the 3 years, that's just crazy as you have a HUGE $$$ investment there, in a car that was designed to run flat out most of it's life, despite whatever pampering it now receives by a proud owner.


And on the older cars like Franklin's 512BBi, or on my and Paul's cars, of course it's a matter of INFORMED owner risk tolerance.

Man, all of ya'll seem WAY tense today, get some sleep! Get a piece of azz! SOMETHING!!!!!

Brian showed up to fill a void left by a dear friend of mine, that recently was lost to us.
Some of you might know where that is.....anyway ........let's sing Kumbaya!

A note to the original subject, the belt change should always be done along with a check of the cam orientation via degree wheel, as IIRC Fat BIlly Bob has alluded to earlier in the thread......that's how JRV did mine.

 

It's been done. http://www.nicksforzaferrari.com/forzaferrariwebsite1_075.htm Do a search and you'll find several threads discussing this.

 

HAHAHA!

What a joke, It's more like this.

This "contract law lawyer" was on here as a "consultant". Sure the guy knew his stuff, had been in the business of contract law for a very long time, and was respected by his peers. As consultant here he was supposed to HELP people who DID NOT have ANY contract law experience. Well he wouldn't give any specifics, all he would do was to criticize the person for not knowing about contract law, and then tell them that they didn't know WTF they were talking about, and to go read the law out of the book, and if they didn't own a law book or weren't a lawyer, they had no business asking about what to do, or give advice, and should go talk to a contract lawyer. Then you would have a guy like say.......ME, who wasn't a lawyer, BUT had experience as a CLIENT with this same problem, or a similar problem, and knew where to direct the person asking for the advice. I would then give them DETAILED instruction as what I did, what worked FOR ME, and why you should stay away from the "big law firms" charging $500/hr "consulting fees". I would then tell them that they could go down to the public law library and look up code:12345, in law book xyz, found in sectionD789 in the back corner, then to file forms ab1 with the clerk, and it would only cost $50 to file the paper work, instead of $500/hr at the lawyers office, and that when he talked to the judge he should refer to rulings from joe-vs-blow, jane-vs-done, jack-vs-jill, and then humpty-vs-dumpty to support their claim and win their case. Well this "contract lawyer" got pissed at the person like ME, because I didn't have a law license, yet knew that the advice I had given out was rock solid. Then when I called him on not giving out advice for FREE, as he should have, as a CONSULTANT, he didn't like it, got pissed and split. I then challenged ANYONE to find just ONE example were this "contract lawyer" gave out as detailed an explanation as I had done several times, from this contract lawyer, who was a consultant, and still have yet to seen one as detailed as I have given.

Naw, Brain isn't missed.

 

Now back to the original question.

5 years, 30k miles (even though the book say 52k), or bust for the belt on my 348.

 

I personally lean towards the time and mileage, and away from the "Bust"

 

I know, me too. I just use the "bust" jokingly. Well sort of, because if mine does break I'll just rebuild it myself.

 

I work at a news television station, the news persons prefer the "Bust" over maintenance.

Here is an example of poor maintenance:

I recommend they change their Onan generators oil every 50 hours. I use the example that generator is running up-hill with a load for 50 continuous hours at 60 miles per hour. Simple math 50 hours....60 mph = 3000 miles. Then ask how often do you change oil in your personal car?

These poor generators run till they are out of oil and they ask why, the boss asks why we have generator engines overhauled so often, the company asks why we have to replace gen sets every couple of years

The answer, Poor Maintenance

 

The generators in the live trucks yeah?