argh... chronic overheating... help....

Go to Dave Helms- He is gracious and desires to help out.

 

Wish I could help with your problem, I wish you the best. I would think the local dealer or the independant could help with your problem but Dave Helms is very highly regarded. I'd think you could limp there if necessary given it's only 45 min away and he could see the car. Good luck.

Jeff

 

When you say nothing comes out, you mean no air or no nothing at all? You should get air, spitting or coolant. If you're actually getting nothing, well......

The radiator feels hot, so it is getting water pumped around. Also you say the fans come on. Are they wired on all the time? If they come on when the radiator gets hot, then that's even more reason to think the water is getting pumped around. You could have some wierd impeller or belt issue that doesn't move _enough_ water around, but that seems unlikely. Are the fans blowing air through the radiator? Meaning both that they aren't wired backwards and that the air path isn't obstructed. When they come on you feel hot air behind the radiator or out the louvers? Are both fans coming on?

I vote no on this. Hot water to the radiator means that at least it is stuck open.

This seems really common on these cars and I don't know why. Cheap and easy to troubleshoot at least. This is my favorite of the list.

This is my second favorite. Cooling system is actually OK, but the engine is just putting out so many BTUs that the cooling system can't cope. But you said even just a neighborhoood drive sent temps way up. That makes me guess no.

Is there something in front of the radiator? Newspaper/plastic bag in the hole, AC condenser filled with bugs, something like that? A partially clogged radiator might give your symptoms. It may flow enough water to get hot top and bottom but not allow enough water thorugh to actually get any cool water to the engine. How old are the rubber hoses? Birdman posted pictures of his crumbling water hoses and my heater hoses looked exactly the same. The chunks of heater hose I had would easily clog up the radiator. Actually it doesn't matter how old the hoses are now if they were in that condition - ever - they could have left debris behind. Even if the big hoses were changed, the smaller hoses often get overlooked (I did, to my peril) and are just as bad.
I'm also curious if the heater works. Does it get hot, a little hot or really really hot? If you can run the heater full bore to keep the engine cool, I vote radiator. If it doesn't get hot I would swap the heater hose in/outs or flush the reverse direction with a garden hose (and check for chunks). If they still don't get hot I vote water pump.


You never had this much fun with the Boxster, did you?

 

Funny line!!!

My guess would be your not getting all the air out, therefore overheating.

Jeff

 

Open the bleed valve on the radiator with the engine cool. Pressurized air should rush out. If you get coolant, your problem is something else, like a plugged radiator. I suspect you have air in your system.

 

Below is Verell's link for bleeding the cooling system.
I'd change the cap and be sure NOT to fill the overflow tank up too high(should be an inch or so from the top, mine used to drip some out the hose when I overfilled it)
The cap can be bought at Napa or Checker. Bring the old one with you. I think it's a 1.1 bar cap (if I recall)
Do you have Birdman's fuseblocks ? If not, GET THEM ASAP (about $100). Changing all of the relays is a good idea too.(about $100 at Rockauto.com)

http://ferrarichat.com/forum/showpos...6&postcount=25

 

I'm no expert - there are others here with far more knowledge than me. However I went thru' the exact same situation with my 328 a few months ago. Overheated almost within 5 mins of start up and practically emptied the system all over the place when I removed the cap - embarrassing and its a ***** to clean off the paint. In the end I replaced my thermostat, refilled and carefully followed Verells procedure to the letter. I found there is a LOT of air in the system at first and you have to keep bleeding front and back every time you use the car. Also make sure the heater is open so you get any air out of the core. Eventually the temp should settle down but keep bleeding....!

Good luck

Mark
Taiwan/UK

 

Here's what you are chasing James

Verells COOLANT/RADIATOR FILL & BLEEDING PROCEDURE

 

I had the same issue on my '84QV. Bleeding, changing the cap, etc - any easy fix - did nothing. I made some significant changes, which solved the issue permanently. In these links

http://ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=35703
http://FerrariChat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=74789

I explained the upgrades I made and included some pictures. I found that the main issue is airflow, or lack thereof, around/through the rad.

Good luck,
Phil

 

James this may be a dumb question but have you looked at the waterpump belt and verified that it is turning. My guess is you either have a blocked rad. or you have a blown head gasket. If you don't get any air or coolant coming out of the bleed holes either hot or cold then something is blocking the flow in the rad. Also what happened the 1st time it overheated. Did you do anything that started the problem. Did you just get the car and it always had this problem or did it just start. I'm going backwards here to see if anything was done to start the problem. Can you contact the previous owner and see if they had a problem . I don't thing playing with the mixtures or getting a new cap is the issue. This is basic cooling system issues and if you can't bleed the system then there is blockage. I would also have someone check the cooling system for exhaust gasses just to make sure that you don't have a bad head gasket. I have bled mine both hot and cold . At least once a week (I drive it every day) I take off the rad. cap (.9 bar) and go to the rad. bleed scr. (77 didn't have one on the thermostat) and open it up. I let it hiss and when AF comes out I'm done. Usually not to much hissing. So I would also try to backflush the system to see what comes out. You would need to go to a garage that could do this before you pull the rad. to get it rodded out. Good luck and keep us posted on progress.

 

Replace the radiator cap because it's probably over due, cheap and easy, but I'm giving 10:1 that it still over heats.

Then replace the thermostat, because it's also pretty chaep and over due, 20: that is doesn't help though.

Then replace you bad radiator. A new stock one will stopp it from overheating, an aluminum one will will stop it from ever getting out of the normal range.

 

Many of the cars i looked at had lots of reciepts for water pumps and re-cored radiators and new fans etc. This is a common problem. You've been bleeding this thing for a long time now and if a T-stat and a cap don't help your gonna need to truck that thing to someone who knows how to fix.

 

Maybe a licence plate in front of the radiator opening?

 

I vote for clogged radiator, like Birdman had, his was full of rubber debris from old hoses.....

Although often it does take multiple tries, to bleed all the air......

 

The car shouldnt be overheating. These cars didnt run hot or overheat when new, they should today unless something is wrong. Its possible that something akin to Birdmans Mondial, coolant hose's breaking down internally and sloughing off chunks of material, has slowly plugged up your radiator. If the radiator is getting hot but not cooling sufficiently, thats really the place to start. Pull it out and flush it good, and take a good look at the core inside. If you see a lot of calcium buildup, you pretty much need a new core. But its also a possibilty you may see chunks of rubber hose or other junk plugging it up. If you get a recore, be adamant they put in a 4 core radiator. Its a bit more expensive, but its worth it.

As far as bleeding, the early cars like mine have no bleeder on the T-stat housing, but they work very well regardless. I grew up with some French cars that had bleeders so the Ferrari was kind of like old school. I remove the fill cap to check coolant level before any run, and with it off, I go and open the bleeder. If the car is on level floor, the level in the reservoir is higher, and coolant/air will come out the radiator bleed. I also like to crack it open when getting fuel after its cooled a bit, just to check. The system is under pressure when hot, so any air in the radiator will come out under pressure. But make sure to run the car with the heater levers/valves open so any air in the heating system will be removed to the radiator or back to the coolant reservoir.

 

mind reader

 

JRV would recore the radiator first, before moving on to the t-stat or water pump as culprits......

 

This statement makes me suspicious-"The original bleeder screw broke and I replaced it with a make-shift one for now, but when it broke, ALOT of coolant came out. I figure there is air in there, but nothing comes out when I bleed it."
Are you SURE that the make-shift plug or part of the broken off plug, isn't blocking the fluid-air from coming out ?

 

Dude, drill a hole in the bolt...it's not hard.......

 

James,
I hope by now you have a new cap. You would be amazed what trouble a weak cap can cause. My first Ferrari was an 84 GTS like yours. The previous owners had spent a lot of money trying to cure an overheating problem. After doing numerous things, he replaced the cap and---presto--all was fine for a $5 fix. Some years later, I bought an 85 308 and it was spitting out the overflow, so I bought a cap from FOD since I was planning to show it, but it still spit out. My mechanic gave me all sorts of horror scenarios as to possible causes. Finally, he said lets pressure check the cap. It was bad. I went to NAPA, spent $5 and all was well. Lesson one: Ferrari caps suck. Lesson 2: do the cheap thing first. 308's have fairly marginal cooling systems. They work fine as long as everything is operating as designed, but if just one thing (like a cap) is out of spec, problems happen. When everything is working properly, you can drive it without fear. I had both 308's on the track on hot days and saw water temps as high as 230 without losing any fluid.

Dave

 

Genius