Vettel Watch Thread

I was polite when I picked "not miss". The reports I read cited a lot stronger feelings. He was downright hated by some. I have rarely seen any comments as negative as he got. Albers was ridiculed for his refuel error in Magny Cours, but that's about it. Scott Speed was in a different league of alienation.

 

But if it is any consolation to the Scott Speed fans: Business F1 did a thorough market analysis where they compared drivers' 07 salaries with their performance. Scott's salary was 250k, but he was estimated to be valued at 1 million. That's pretty significant as most drivers were estimated right at their salary value or below (Ralfie, no surprise there).

 

I guess we'll need citations for this then.

 

Absolutely not.To be honest, I didn't like Speed much at all until a few months ago. I felt sorry for him because he was catching **** from everyone, including his own bosses. I started reading his brother's blog, who was living with him in Europe, and from that I started to understand his personality more. Him being American has absolutely nothing to do with it. If you recall, I was pulling for Bourdais to get in F1 constantly. I was always at odds with Senna3xwc, as to whether or not Bourdais would or should get to F1.

As for Mario, I'm afraid I'm a bit young to fully appreciate him.

 

I still think Vettel should have stayed at BMW, but I could see a race drive would be way too good to pass up.

Speed still deserves that seat. He was dusted Liuzzi before Gerhard decided to dump him.

Who knows, Vettel could be a BMW driver in 2009. I would really like to see Bourdais in a better car too. When was the last time a Frenchman was really fighting for the title?

 

+1

 

Well I don't have the articles anymore. One was in Motorsport Aktuell written by one of its journos. One was from Niki Lauda, one was from Autosport (I believe), a few were in Blick and some snippets in BusinessF1.

The point is, that various sources came to the same conclusion: Speed behaved like a complete jerk and that coupled with his average performance broke the camel's back.

Obviously I have no idea how he behaved off camera, but simply based on how odd he came off on Speed TV I figured there is a screw loose somewhere. Maybe he is just immature, who knows.

 

And here I thought you were discussing Ralf...

 

Prost 1993

You guys will get your wish re Bourdais. The guy who was barely outpacing F-1 rejects Justin Wilson, Doornbos, and Jani in Champ cars will come to F1 and demonstrate why he was ignored for 5 years by the F1 community. Whoever fills Bourdais' seat at Newman Haas better not get too comfortable. Seabass will be back in it before too long...

 

I'm holding back on my judgement, but you might be right.

At any rate it is going to show us once again how much value there is in the Champ Car Title. Probably not a lot, but we'll see.

 

Just a thought here, but you are citing European press. From what I saw, Speed network seemed mostly positive and defended Speed. Not waving the stars and stripes...but do you think European press would have been hard/biased against Speed? After all, he came across as a "brash american" into a sport that is well, European.

Regarding your comment of "coupled with his average performance" - I don't see it that way, he outdrove his teammate consistently, was showing a little more patience and was generally improving.

 

Yes, there is a chance that the Euro press has potentially an anti American bias, but I don't think it is overpowering the facts. For what it is worth, they're all lamenting the loss of the USGP, so it is not all bad that carries the Stars and Stripes.

And:

The Euro press is equally harsh about Liuzzi. Not with him as a person (Speed's character is singled out there), but with his performance. The criticisms of Speed go hand in hand with those of Liuzzi and he too soon will be F1 history.

Regarding bias and the press: There is also probably a pro Vettel bias because he is German and many (not all) of the reports I read were in German. Of course they're looking for the next Schumacher.

 

I swear Bourdais must have pissed in your corn flakes or something. Anyways, it's probably not going to be difficult for him to at least perform at the same level that Speed and Liuzzi did. I highly doubt he'll be fired mid season, as Gerhard seems to really like him, which means Seabass knows how to kiss some ass. Unlike Speed, who apparently didn't kiss enough of it.

 

Not really, I simply can't understand how, on the same boards that Hamilton is being bashed for being "lucky", people seem to think that Bourdais is going to be anything other than a backmarker.

This is a guy who has his hands full with guys like Justin Wilson in a second-rate champ car series. So he won 3 years in a row, big deal. All he had to beat were guys like Neel Jani and Doornbos. None of those guys amounted to anythign in F1 yet they are all race winners in Champ cars, what does that say about that series? Even more importantly, what does that say about Bourdais' championships?

I see nothing, absolutely nothing, to suggest that Bourdais is going to be any better than the other rejects at STR. What I do know, is that Bourdais could give lessons on whining to Alonso. He even makes Nigel Mansell look like a stoic.

F1 is boring enough these days, the last thing the sport needs is a stiff like Bourdais.

 

I'm not following Champ cars much these days, but if Jani or Doorknob are the measure of things, winning a Champ car title means close to nothing. Two complete loosers by F1 standards.

 

Yeah but the competitiveness of the machinery in Champ cars are closer than F1, it's a spec series. The gap between the NHL cars and the cars of Doornbos and Wilson etc. isn't like the gap between Ferrari/Mclaren and the rest of the field. If these guys have the skill to even reach F1, then they are good drivers. If they are given machinery that is fairly competitive in Champ cars, unlike what they received in F1, then they will win races. If you were to give guys like Justin Wilson and Robert Doornbos a Ferrari or Mclaren, they wouldn't perform far away from Massa. Especially given how Massa performed in 2006. Fact is, Gerhard could have swiped up someone in GP2 who has alot of money to bring if he wanted to. He didn't do that, he chose Bourdais. Let's see how he gets on. I for one am rooting for him, because he's kind of an underdog in the whole uber anal F1 world, who are now taking guys as young as Vettel. I do admit he whines too much though.

 

Actually I'm rooting for Bourdais. I like him, but then again I liked Irvine, JPM and Villeneuve.

Seriously I wish him well, but I'm not holding my breath.

 

+1

I like all of those drivers as well.

 

Nonsense.

Justin Wilson drove a Jaguar alongside Mark Webber (who is just another midfield runner) and he was blown away. None of these guys performed well against their teammates in F1, which is the first benchmark in F1, and that is why they are now in Champ cars. You might need a McLaren or a Ferrari to win in F1 but simply driving one of those cars does not guarantee you will win. There are plenty of drivers in F1 today who couldn't win, even behind the wheel of one of these cars.

This notion that guys like Justin Wilson and Doornbos failed only because they didn't have top rides is ridiculous. They failed because thy could not perform.

 

Doorknob was the imbecile getting into Alonso's way.

Neel Jani is a hopeless case: The big new Swiss hope and promoted by Sauber and Red Bull, but when he tested for them, he was so slow, they really couldn't hire him for anything.

 

Ah but I said how Massa performed in 2006. You're telling me they wouldn't even come close to that? Because that's what I was implying, that they aren't so terrible that they couldn't at least compare to how Massa did in 2006. In case you don't remember, Massa lost Ferrari the constructors because there were times when he was in the midfield, while Michael was up front. I didn't say that they could match how he's currently doing, as you seem to taken it and ran away with it. Also, if you think the only measure of why certain drivers are in F1, is their ability, then you are wrong. Many politics are involved in why people are in F1. Massa is a perfect example. You think Ferrari couldn't have hired a driver who was better? Granted Massa is doing well now, but at the beginning of 2006, he shouldn't have been near that Ferrari. Hence them losing the constructors.

 

My thoughts on Massa are pretty well documented (ad nauseum, some would say), I think he is a midpack runner and that there are several drivers who would have been a better choice, however Bourdais is not one of them.

I know politics are a reason why some bad drivers are in F1, take Bourdais for instance...

 

Lmao

Good one, I thought you were going to name Sato or Ralfie.

 

If Michael hadn't made it into F1, Ralfie would have never gone beyond an F1 test.

 

+1 or get paid the exhorbitant salary for his surname.