The Factory "3 Year Timing Belt Change" Recommendation - Fact or Fiction?

So if the TSB is dated 2004--Does that mean previous year cars should still be done at 5 years as the manual says and cars made in 2004 to present should reflect the 3 year rule???? Not sure I understand--if my owners manual says every 5 years on a 1998 car, then Ferrari decides every 3 years in a TSB 6 years later--Which one should I go by??

 

New info supersedes old info. In the real world automakers learn of field issues after cars have been in use for a while, so they'll issue a TSB to fix those cars already out there. If the Ferrari belt change TSB was financially motivated, who knows, I can't decide myself. Seen good points on both sides. For the belt change we'll never arrive at a consensus in Fchat so we all need to make our own decisions based on all the comments. For me, 4 yrs (this coming winter DIY).

 

Question I have. The whole world follows this three years recommendation, or happens in US only. If the whole world follows then question needed to be forwarded directly to Ferrari manufacturer. If happens in US only, again should be asked ferrari in Italy. In order to understand the logic behind it you guys should send a respectable, trusted person like Brain to ferrari in Italy to bring us back a solid logical answer. questining each other is not going to get any body any where. If you ask US ferrari they will tell you this is what manufacturer told us.

 

The rest of the world was at 2 yrs recommended when we were at 5 (paperwork I have regarding the TR). That recommendation was then changed to 3 yrs (excluding NA) with a new updated part number for the belts.
The 5 yr NA recommendation came about from the "annual cost of maintaince index" from the Fed. gov.
I would bet that Ferrari was turning blue while holding their breath wondering if they would last back then.

Dave

 

...and flywheels.

 

here you go...

Ray
View attachment belt_change.pdf

 

Ray,

You just made that...

Gene

 

O.K., I have a question, if I buy into the 3 year model, what if the belt purchased is 1 year old? Does that mean that it should be changed in 2 years? Are the belts date stamped? So, if I drive 3-4K miles each year, is age the only factor? So, I ask again, how does one know how old the replacement belt is? Might it be that the belt has sat on a shelf for 12-18 months? Just curious.
Thanks,
S.

 

I cant remember how right off the top of my head, but if you buy a belt from Gates, there is a date code. The Ferrari belts offer no such information. I would buy a Gates belt, just as a preference for having that knowledge. Whether your going to do the labor yourself, or pay to have it done, the expense of the belt itself is of little consequence. Knowing its as fresh as a Daisy seems more important than who's name is on it, and AFAIK Gates makes the belt for Ferrari anyway.

For those who cringe at the expense of going through this so often, there is an alternative maintenence schedule I would like to present. If the car is at least gone through thoroughly the first time, degree wheeled properly, valve clearances checked and/or adjusted, new cam seals, etc., etc., I would suggest you could change only the belts every three years and leave the valve timing and valve check etc., for the next scheduled event. If you are absolutely sure the engine valve timing is correct, there are several ways to replace the belts without altering valve timing significantly and without removing the cam covers. This is provided that no cam seals are leaking etc., as there would be no way to replace them, but at least the engine would have new timing belts and tensioner bearings and would be realistically safe from catastrophic damage in the interim. This job shouldnt realistically take more than a couple hours to perform, so therefore it should not cost more than a few hours labor plus the cost of two belts and two tensioners. I am pretty sure even Dave would agree that keeping the cars running safely, albeit somewhat crudely, would be a far better option than the alternative results. I know there was a thread regarding doing something simularly on a 348 with the engine in the car. I know, like I said, its kind of crude, but if it could be done quickly and inexpensively and save the car from damage for the next full service on a 6 year schedule, it wouldnt really hurt anything IMHO. Preserving these cars has to be our first goal. Perfection has to take second place to that, IMHO. I just dont want to see anymore cars like Tmobileguys, Spirots, or anyone else's. Especially me.

3 years or 30K miles, whichever comes first, timing belts and tensioners only, and 6 years and or 40K miles, whichever comes first, full engine service? What say Ye, gentlemen?

 

Ferrari always recommended a 52,500 mile cam belt change on its V8s in its OMs. My former 328 and 348 OMs both specified 52,500 mile cam belt changes. IMHO, the change to 3 years was due to a FNA request and is only for increased dealership income...

 

I suspect there is some validity in that argument, however once the belt is installed it suffers a completely different set of circumstances than sitting on a shelf. It's under tension, heat cycled, and probably worst of all if the car is not used much, sitting under tension wrapped around the pulleys with fairly small diameters.

This whole belt argument will rage on for a LONG time but at the end of the day, you change them when you change them. To put a Colin Chapman spin on it, if the belt doesn't crumble apart in your hands as you remove it, you did it too early! That's not a gamble I'm willing to take, so I'll always change belts "too early".

 

Yup, your right. So did Fiat. And just about every single Fiat I ever seen in the junk yard had a broken timing belt. They shortened the schedule because it was unrealistic.

 

Wouldn't the engine still need to be pulled to change the belts and tensioners? So, since the majority of the labor is in the engine removal and reinstallation, why not do the whole thing?

 

would you install five year old tires? put in ten year old coolant?

you do the best you can for fresh parts and hope n pray for the best, keeping in sync with 'recommended' replacements. Agree with Daniel, that installed factors far outweight sitting on a shelf...

but, it is a stress part, that [and I always say most weak link] will be something to watch.....something in this conversation too, although we don't truly know the entire story, but PAP's wheel bolt problem and stress [?] that may have been a factor [perhaps we'll never know].

When I used to fly [decades ago] I would check every part as much as possible before each flight.....

 

No Gene, I think Ray Johns has posted the real TSB....grab it and update your manual.

Thanks, Ray!

Engine out not required on 308/328
Not sure on 348
Definately IS required for 355/360/430

 

all 348's require engine out: Mondial T and 348's

 

No belts on the F430, they went back to chains, so there is no reason to pull the motor for normal service. I also believe that the 360 has an access panel behind the seats that allow belt changes to be made with the engine in the car. I was just at Penske-Wynn today watching them pull my engine out of the 308 GTSi and that is what they told me.

 

you say that so calmly: why would you need to pull a 308?

 

Surely they're doing more than just belts and valve clearances?

 

There is an old thread with pictures, someone put a timing belt on a 348 with the motor in the car. It was rather crude, and you couldnt consider it a full service, but at least it lowered the probability of a major failure. I would assume if it could be done on a 348, it could be done on a 355.


There is no need to pull a 308 motor, just about anything can be done with it parked in place. I even got a front header out of a 308 from underneath once. I wont try that again.

 

This is the thread I was refering too http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=57614&highlight=timing+belt.

Sadly, it degenerated into the usual name calling, etc., so PLEASE, lets not do that here. I just was thinking it would be good to discuss it.

At the time this thread was posted, I think the belief was still 5 years and 30. But a few havnt quite made it, we have a TSB saying 3 and 30, so obviously its an issue. If the belt on a 348 could really be changed in the car, economically, then the car could go to a modified 6 year major service schedlule.

Just to be sure everyone knows what I am suggesting, this would NOT be a major service, no seals, etc., just the belt, tensioners, and water pump. The big stuff that goes bang in the night. The rest could all be done at the next engine out.

 

I sent an e-mail inquiry to Customer Service at Ferrari in Italy asking for copies of the pair of TSB's referenced early on in this thread. The reply came this a.m., directing me to my "local" dealer, so that idea did not work out as planned.

Anyone have a dealer contact local to them?

Still would like to have a copy of the 12 cyl. TSB posted herein, for future reference purposes.

Cheers - DM

 

You have downloaded the one posted here for the v8s?

I printed it in color and examined it closely, it's the one........

 

TSBs are indeed considered proprietory to Ferrari, as if you read through them all it exposes them to criticism by the general public....LOL!

"Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain!!!"

 

They really are also considered to be the requirements to "maintain" the Warranty of a new car, once that expires you can do "whatever the He11 you want", but it's results are on your dime, not FNA's........