If it happen ... the consequence of McLaren's ban ...

Wake up and smell the roses, will You?! I think you've seen way too many movies.
Let me remind you something:
1) March 2007--McLaren are tipped on Ferrari car elemnts
2)May 2007 --McLaren are investigated for team orders during Monaco GP
3) Somewhere in between McLaren receives 780 pages of Ferrari top secret information, including car set ups, racing strategy and Bridgestone data
4)July 2007 McLaren are found guilty of possesing the Ferrari info, but there is not enough evidence that they used it
5) August 2007 McLaren are penalized with WCC points deduction during the Hungarian GP
6)September 2007 McLaren were investigated and fined $ 50 000 for using a lightweight gear box that has not been crash-tested prior to the Hungarian GP
7)September 2007--new evidence against McLaren!!!
On top of things --Alonso was crying that since he joined McLaren he improved their times by 0.6sec per lap. But he was wrong. It was Ferrari stolen paperwork that improved McLaren's times. The only credit Alonso can get is for using his e-mail to recieve the stolen car set ups!!!
Case closed! Thanks for coming! Come again!

 

The reason why the season 2007 has been the most interesting as of late could well be because MC laren cheated..

 

If you want we can start digging up old fossils and see which team comes up with a complete dinosaur first.

 

Your previous posts indicate that you are a pretty big Alonso fan, fine. I can't understand however, after he admits to the FIA to having the tech setup for the F2007, how you can fail to see any wrong doing by McLaren or Alonso. He blatently came out, as well as De La Rosa, and admitted to discussing the set up with eachother. This isn't some huge conspiracy by Ferrari to screw with Mclaren. A rogue employee leaked the data, but instead of reporting it, it was distributed to Mclaren employees. This bit with Alonso and Pedro proves it.

 

I'm not meaning any disrespect by this: Are you serious? I'm at a loss for how any of these posts are thought logical. McLaren had the documents. Dennis knew about them. The drivers had the Ferrari setup. The drivers admitted to having and discussing it. You think McLaren (including absolutely everyone on board Drivers, Mechanics, Dennis, etc.) aren't at least partially to blame? That this is some "sting" by Ferrari? I'm going to lie down............

 

You know, I think that spying and maybe cheating is something typical not just for McCheater employees, but also their fans. There are people here on F-chat, ( I don't want to mention any names, parkerfe) that are clearly McCheater and Alonshole fans. I don't understand why are they here at all, since all I have seen from them so far is just trash MS, Ferrari and praise and root for the McCheaters and their drivers, past and present. Oh, I forgot the occasional insults towards other F-chatters. There for the only reasonable explanation I see for their presence is SPYING on the competition's camp.
I guess it runs in the family

 

awesome.

 

Oh here we go again.

 

Flame suit on! - IMCO, neither of the above statements are yet *proven* to be true - I posted a scenario ages ago in which the senior mgmt of Mclaren (Whitmarsh and a couple of others who's names I can't recall, but *not* including Lucifer) had a meeting along the lines of:

"Hey, we better not let Lucifer know that idiot Coughlan has a bunch of SFM data"
"Hell, if he finds out we're all in deep ****"
"Just tell Coughlan to get rid of the damn things"

Which it appears he did via a burn in his back yard - Albeit after making sure he (*not* Mclaren) had it all on disk..... It seems to me Coughlan & Stepney were getting a nice package together to take to Honda, or whoever would hire 'em - NOT a package for Mclaren.

Now, Coughlan discusses the data with De La Pink (presumably at the now infamous Spain test?) and possibly Alonsole - Probably without revealing how he had such knowledge - I'm pretty sure he didn't say "hey - I've got all this stolen data from SFM - here you go" but rather "hey - I understand that doing xyz improved the Ferrari, you may want to give this a try"..... What driver isn't going to listen?

Please rest assured that I'm no Mclaren fan, but I honestly believe Lucifer himself didn't know until very late in the day.

As usual, just my 02c,
Cheers,
Ian

 

I didn't mean to start up anything by my posts. Parker is entitled to his opinion, and he can voice it how he choses. Not everyone will agree, and that's why these forums are so good. I enjoy the posts, it sparks good debate

 

I could also see that. Maybe the McMerc drivers didn't know it was coming directly from the Ferrari books. I don't think all of the facts are clear yet, but from what I've read so far, Alonso and De la Rosa were e-mailing back and forth the setups for the F cars. IMO they had to have known where it was coming from.

In the event that these alligations are proven true, why does McLaren need to do any of this? They've always had a fast car and a really strong team. They did have reliability issues, but their own stratagies and formulas were working pretty well for them. Between this and that whole untested gearbox issue, I don't understand why they're trying so desperatly.

 

i agree with Ron. Mclaren could have alerted the FIA when Stepney emailed them or passed them whatever documents containing Ferrari stuff, yet he just kept quiet, and oddly, he knew what the heck was going on on the floor of the Ferrari in AUssie. Mclaren should be punished severely. then, RD can cry.

 

And you are, of course, entitled to that opinion - But if, as seems likely, the info that they were sharing was making 'em go faster human nature (unfortunately) says that although they may have suspicions of something awry they're going to go with it and not start yelling from the rooftops - Coughlan was the chief designer after all - Someone the drivers are going to listen to.....

One thing that's struck me is that thus far anyway LH name hasn't been mentioned.....

I believe the "gearbox issue" was nothing more than them "pushing the envelope" - The regulations wrt when a crash test is required are pretty vague ("a *substantial* change") , they saw the change as not requiring a new test and the FIA disagreed - They got a slap on the wrist, the 'box passed and we should move on - At least as far as this topic is concerned.

Cheers,
Ian

 

Absolutely spot - on

 

And I defintaly understand that. To me that's the biggest problem. I don't know if it will ever come to light whether or not those who viewed the information knew it was from Ferrari or not. In my mind though, other than Coughlan, Dennis had to have known. I hate to keep going back to it, but you don't see a floor on a car that's passing you at 200 mph at a height of 2 inches.

I also found it interesting that Hammi hasn't been mentioned. Maybe ( if it is true that Alonso is the source) he sees this as his way for securing the #1 drive for McMerc. Pledging his loyalty? I understand, as I'm sure he does, that there could be pretty substantial ramifictaions of holding out, but I think its LH and RD to the end. Or maybe, he was kept in the dark from all of this? Who knows.

 

Kami dont back down....You are absolutly right. I would just like to know what he is smoking because it is much to strong.

The other thing I would like to say is that Ron Dennis knows exactly what is going on. I havnt liked this guy for many years. He has always given me the impression that he is very capable of this sort of thing. If he has any ball at all he would attempt to save face as well as his own azz by suspending alonshole and pedro. They may be imune from FIA punishment but if they worked for me then I would be on their butts and giving them the hoof. But why hoof someone when they might just spill the hole jar of beans instead of just part of it. I think we may find that at the bottom of the jar lies Lucifer himself. Lets see how much of this jar spills out.

 

Which "he" are you referring to? - Coughlan (apparently acting outside of his Mclaren role) or Lucifer?

As to the moving floor, remember that BMWSauber had the same type of floor - *WHY* Mclaren asked for a clarification of this point seems well established - Stepney (may he rot in jail!) alerted his buddy Coughlan (*not* Mclaren BTW) of the "flexifloor" and Charlie duly "clarified" the rules by adding an upward flex test to the existing "downward" test - And the circus moves on.....

Cheers,
Ian

 

I'm not backing down, I'm just trying to accommodate the fact that he has the right to his opinion; and I realize that mine is usually pretty biased for Ferrari. I love the debate; it does the mind good....

I completely agree with you on Dennis. If he is, in fact innocent, I would be interrogating the balls off of Alonso to see if these allegations are true. If RD is such an honest guy, why not give them the same punishment as Coughlin (if they are in fact guilty) who also had valuable information of the Ferrari team.

 

Who was it that brought the floor issue to the stewards? I don't think I've ever had that part of the story. I just assumed it was Dennis.

 

Mclaren did indeed ask for the "clarification", and as I said above, the current belief is they that did so as a result of information that had been passed to Coughlan by Stepney(may he rot in jail). - Note, not passed to Lucifer and/or Mclaren, but directly to Coughlan.

 

anyone get the feeling that whatever MlM does for remainder of the year is likely just not going to improve things:

McLM used a lightweight gear box in last race and with all that is/has/will happen...might as well hang it up for the year...
grab a beer and watch Ferrari win on the tele

http://www.totalf1.com/view-article.php?newsid=225014

 

Information flows back and forth every day between companies trying to steal trade secrets, ever take notice how car manufacture's designs and features are so similar on a given year when this information is supposed to be confidential.

 

Why play games with words here. You know very well that when Coughlan got the info on the floor and passed it on to Lucifer who then made the call to charlie or whomever, that he must have asked Coughlan....."how do you know this?" We are not children and if someone came to me with that sort of info, I would want it backed up before I shot my mouth off to the authorities. Its becomeing more and more obviouse that Ron knew everything and he is going to go down for it. Yes it may be announced as a retirement but will all know what it really is. The other statement you made about Coughlan "apparently acting outside of his Mclaren role" makes no sense as he could only be acting outside of his McCheater role if it had absolutely nothing to do with F1 motor racing. IE if im driving down a street while off duty and I spot a house fire and someone is trapped then I do what I am trained to do and am covered for it. I am not acting outside of my Fire Dept. duties...its what I do. Another example would be if I am charged with drunk driving..I still have a job...If I am charged with arson....hasta la vista as there is just a slight bit of conflict there.

 

Rule #1 Do Not Cheat (see definition of "cheat)"
Clause 1a: Cheat or cheating: To take data from another team or company and use it to your advantage all the while while using Clause 1b.

Clause 1b: DENIAL means Didn't Even Notice I Am Lying (see clause 1c)

Clause 1c: "I" refers to Team McLaren

Rule #2: These rules can not be made at a copy shop anywhere within a 8000 mile radius of Team McLaren. You must use "Certified Ferrari Copy Center".

Rule 3: If you can not understand these rules RETIREMENT OF THE ENTIRE TEAM IS REQUIRED FOR SEASON 2008. (See clause 3a)

Clause 3a: Retirement means that the ENTIRE TEAM must use bikes for all race season. Bikes must be ONE SPEED and all tires may only use approved "RD HOT AIR" braking systems.

 

No, I understand that, but who asks for clairification on a rule without the team principal knowing something about it?