Brundle take on spy row *** possible spoiler***

Can't wait until the truth is finally revealed ... but unfortunately we will never know, unless Jean publishes an autobiography one day and lets it slip.

I bet you also own a Ferrari hat, jumper, jacket, shoes the whole works ... lol, cool man cool .
Pete
ps: I own an old hat too, hangs in my shed gathering grinding dust .

 

look Ron (this is RD using this account right ??) , you're late on the scene, been over all this many times, Stepney has criminal charges against him and Coughlan has been suspended (you should have sacked him but the IR laws are heavy in the UK), several members of McL had plenty of opportunities to clear this up but have all stayed shtum thereby implicating themselves and showing up all this holier than thou stuff as bunkum.

McL had many opportunities to behave ethically but apart from putting up a firewall to stop incoming emails from our Nige (like WTF were you thinking Gordo ... I mean Ron, let's leave a technology trail a mile wide ffs) they never called the FIA as whistleblowers (as you would say) except when it was in their favour on the floating floor (which only proved you had the information, unless you're handing out tiny binoculars to the ants to report back - wouldn't put anything past you though )

No no , this is all a case of crocodile tears from the pommy press to keep LH in with a chance of getting the WDC by poo pooing the Italians at every turn

On the track a very different story, 2 very equal cars, one seems more reliable and it's drivers are making less mistakes, it's all very close and we hate losing

 

Pete, you are definitely not brain dead, you should retract that statement 355, but you are overly racing-centric and Bruce McL biased as we with Ferraris are.

When we tifosi bleed it is rossa corsa, (well mines slightly darker because I like the older cars ) but there has been a wrong done here and saying that everyone does it doesn't make it right ... everyone speeds, including the cops, but it's only those that get caught that pay the penalty and in this case McL got caught ....

Have Ferrari cheated in the past , most probably, did they get caught, not yet despite Lucifer's best efforts and that paragon of virtue Briatore trying to put the needle in ... but I do believe they have done things that were not in the spirit of the sport and 21 years between drinks will do that to you as I believe has happened here with McL

 

Actually, I'm really Mario Thiessen. Now tell me how I didn't just have information on Ferrari's illegal floor mounting system, but actually had a similar system installed on my cars. I suppose you will suggest that technical innovation exists in a vacuum, and that nobody but Ferrari could have come up with a cheat like that? Or perhaps Ron must have told me all the details about the illegal Ferrari floor mounting system so that I could duplicate it, but Ron didn't bother (hey, maybe Ron has ethics after all!)

It's kind of like Honda's fuel tank - only in this case, the FIA decided not to wait until scrutineering to nail Ferrari for cheating and thus ban them for a race or two, as Honda received when they had an illegal fuel tank. But of course, it's Ferrari, not Honda, so instead they sent out a nice little reminder that the regulations are pretty clear that aerodynamic devices, including floors, are supposed to be rigidly mounted, and that any sort of mount that permits movement of the floor is a clear violation of the rules - in other words, using such a floor mount system is blatantly illegal and constitutes cheating.

Anyway - I suppose these things all have been debated here ad nauseum, and I deliberately avoided the discussions because the blinkered comments are painful to read. So, apologies if I'm late to the scene! I popped in and read a thread or two, next thing I know I'm stooping to respond . I'm not really a McLaren fan, but I'm definitely not a Jean Todt fan - and not much of a de Montezemolo fan either. You know, the guy who forced Schumacher out of F1 last year? I was very much a Ross Brawn fan, but it's becoming clear that Todt doesn't want him back at Ferrari.

 

You should check with my wife first

I understand everything Moretti, along with the bias, my view is now the future and the implications of McLaren being removed from this or next years WDC because of "knowing something about a competitions car" is enormous, and endangers the sport far more than just accepting that everybody does indeed cheat.

In the end Ferrari benefits from F1 being around, once everybody gets on the legal bandwagon and starts accusing everybody else of cheating (specifically knowing something about their car, or copying) ... F1 is over. Basically we watch races on Sunday and then wait 4 months for the legal proceedings before we can confirm the winner. Repeat over and over until 4 months after the last race we can share a beer over the winner.

The only solution is identical cars ... ynck!
Pete

 

Man, almost totally disagree. I know this is not a perfect world. And this is not a perfect sport. But hell, we can´t start pretending that nothing happenend just because it´s good for the show or because everybody cheats sometimes. I think that banning McLaren for two years is too much, but they deserve some kind of punishment.

And everybody stop with that crap of Ferrari are whinners blah, blah, blah... What would you do in their situation? Do you think that McLaren wouldn´t try the same thing? Wouldn´t you try to catch by every means a thief who had stolen something from you?

If Ferrari were caught with McLaren´s papers I bet that many of those who defend McLaren would ask for Jean Todt´s head.

 

well Mario/Ron (hope you're taking medication for the split personality ) , were you still a RB fan when he was laughed out of the technical directors meeting a few years back when he raised the Michelin tyre issue ?

I remember seeing you at the back row laughing your head off at what Patrick Head was saying to him.

 

how can ferrari win this case?? it's not ferrari v mclaren. it's FIA v Mclaren

 

Most of it but I cant find a jacket that looks right on me no matter how long a stand in front of a full length mirror. I will have to get the mirror Alonshole uses.
I must admit that you are not so much brain dead as It was late last night and I had just read some of the post from the real brain deads on here. I should not have lumped you in with people like s3xwloser and a few others on here.

 

Some don't need to actually hear the facts before they draw conclusions.

Be careful, if you insist on actually waiting for the FIA meetings to learn the facts, you will get labelled a McLaren Apologist...by two idiots who spent the better part of the season criticizing Kimi...so much for being a Ferrari "supporter"

 

Actually it was in December of last year that Ferrari took away Stepney keys as well as his access to all f1 sensitive material since his new job did not require it. The reason for transferring Stepney to this new position, which he considered a demotion, is not known at present. I am sure we will know more at the trial (if there is going to be one).

 

They did catch the thief who stole something - by Ferrari's accounts, that was Nigel Stepney. As far as we know, he has never been a McLaren employee.

 

Their Technical Director, iirc. McLaren, as a corp. entity, were adjudicated guilty, as well. Rather oddly they were absolved rather than being punished.

A team is not allowed to use another's intellectual property, it's the basis of the series: Unique and individual constructors.

Even possessing such is a cardinal violation of the sporting regulations.

And was staggeringly dominant shortly thereafter.

Heal thyself.

So it's Ferrari's fault McLaren had a mole steal technical information and transmit them to McLaren's Technical Director?

...Novel.

Just what is not fair about punishing a team that's caught cheating one of the primary rules of the sport?

 

Its no use. They still think the world is flat.

 

I agree.

However, if Coughlan is found to have acted on his own and without McLaren's knowledge, will you similarly consider that team not responsible?

 

Did you get all upset and accuse Ferrari of cheating, when they copied all the British teams and put the engine in the back of the F1 cars ???

 

Yes and no.

yes if he just used it as a bargaining chip to get himself another job at better pay (hard to believe unless the head of some team)

No if he or the McL team used the information in any way in their racing efforts either to help them selves or hurt others (like questioning the flexible barge board issue...where'd they get that information???). And why hasn't Coughlan been terminated??? Isn't he still "suspended"?

 

What about disc brakes? Don't forget that.

 

As funny as this post is, it is very very valid in what I have been trying to say.

If Ferrari win (yes I know the FIA has the case against McLaren, but it will only benefit Ferrari) then this opens a can of worms. One of the few new things Ferrari bought to F1 was the vertical exiting exhausts, now everybody has them. Now if another team comes up with a clever idea and somebody copies it, will they get thrown out of the WDC/WC because obviously they had knowledge of the other teams car/design? Or are we going to have the strange situation where they can only copy after so many races, etc.?

F1, particularly because it is a fast changing and innovation is the key to winning, has relied on/advanced because some teams have created concepts while others have perfected them. This involves studying the other teams car and/or designs. If we make this illegal as this case will ... what have we really done?

1. Will cars have to be cleared by an independent board before the season starts to ensure no 2 cars are too similar?
2. Will cars have to race in exactly the same format/design as the very first race to ensure there is no chance of another team accusing them of copying them? ... thus will we no longer see a car improve during the season? [Sarcasim]Gee that will be exciting![/Sarcasim]
3. Will the cars race with security guards running along side them to ensure nobody can get too close and inspect any details?

I'm sorry all this complication and potential ruining of the core of our sport can be solved quite simply by teams being man enough to ensure nobody on their team is a wanker and tells their secrets. Like it or not Ferrari caused this by trusting somebody. The right solution for this situation is for Ferrari's Jean Todt to utter a really bloody loud 'FNCK', maybe even repeat it a few times and then shut up and ensure it does not happen again!

The sport has to accept that McLaren thanks to some slimmy English citizens grabbed an advantage. This advantage is not as clever as something like the winged floor that Colin Chapman invented, but yep they have an advantage this year on inside information on the Ferrari team. We can punish them, yep ... but in doing so the fine print will be the most complex ever seen in a legal document and will either say absolutely nothing, or bring about what I have raised earlier in this post, ie. that technological advances will pretty much halt.
Pete

 

Not to mention active suspension, wings, barge boards, brake ducts, and dont even get me started on the carbon fibre tub!!
I do believe it was with this in mind (carbon fibre) that RD was able to get the funds to buy out Mclaren, and change racing for ever.
Now if Mclaren are found guilty of cheating (hard to believe they wont when Max Mosley has a personal axe to grind with Dennis), then they should be punished accordinly, but I doubt anything on their car is similar to the Ferrari, more than any other of the cars on the grid. ( different wheel base, weight distribution etc, etc, etc, etc...........). I think Mclaren just made last years car reliable, they had worked with Bridgestone before, have better drivers this year, and Mercedes made out better with the 19k rev limit than the others. (save maybe BMW). Ferrari changed the Wheel base and all sorts of other things on the car which just didn't work out.
Oh one other thing, before I get called a hater or a RD/Mcl lover, or what ever other original name people can come up with, look at what i do for a living, no one could be more invested in Ferrari's than myself (they feed my kids), and next time you open the engine compartment of your F-car look at the injection systems, thottle actuators, ignitions etc etc, all come of Mercedes of 10 years previous. So get off your high horses and understand this is just business as usual.

 

Great post.

 

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