USA 08 Model Price Increase will be 20%!!!

Good. They should be dream cars. The fewer that have them, the better.

 

Yep. In China

+1

 

LOL+2 looks like Alex is in a Feisty Mood!

 

any rumors regarding canadian pricing? or this just sale to the us? or to all customers?

 

...as usual....the US market 'players' are always the most gullible. It's only in the US market that Ferrari treats its customers with such undisguised disdain. Example: when you buy a 599 in the US...you 'must' purchase the Composite Brakes. Even though it's on the 'option' list....you don't actually have an 'option'. You are forced to purchase at least 35K of options now...or they won't process your order. This company is taking the entire US market for fools. In Europe, they don't have either the 'contract', which says you must sell your car back to the dealer, nor do they have the forced 'option' clause. They must have a real laugh in Maranello when they think this stuff up. If they tried it in Europe....they would be looking over their shoulders every time they stepped outside! Of course....can't say I blame them....considering the complete acquiecense that buyers in the US demonstrate towards being treated so shamefully. Baaaa, Baaaa.....

 

I here what your saying but I believe it is a simple supply and demand issue here in the United States. Their are simply too many people in the US with the cash to buy the cars. Ferrari sees what these cars are selling for in the open market and has decided that it would make sense to price their current lineup higher in the US for many reasons, a lot of them listed in this thread.

Do not feel too bad for those of us who are Americans. For years we had access to incredibly cheap gas and low interest rates/lease rates for our auto loans/leases. I look at the lease/finance deals and pricing in CAR and EVO and feel for my friends on the other side of the pond. A lot of European car companies for the last 5 years or so were offering free service for 3-4 years if you bought a new car here in the States. That has died off a bit lately but BMW still pays for nearly everything except for tires for the first 4yrs/50K miles.(No idea if they do that in Europe too) We also are better protected (whether it is right or wrong) if the car is a lemon here. Actually I think we get a far better deal overall on cars compared to people in Europe.

 

Marketing 101.

Charge the highest price for a product that the market will bear.

If the resale prices are higher than list, they've priced the product too low. Period.

 

Actually, CCB's are likely mandated by lawyers, just as no rollbar. Better brakes imply standard brakes are "insufficient". I have seen several recent cars later than mine with steel brakes.
That is 18k or so. I have no idea what you're talking about with 35k of options mandated.
Car is still a deal at 100k more. If you don't want to pay it, scrimp on options, why are you buying it?
I doubt everyone who buys at MSRP is stupid. I doubt FNA is stupid. Limited production drives demand, and if MSRP is low, raise it. You can't/won't pay? Pass, or buy something cheaper. I added 35% to sticker with options, would do it again.
You want "value for $"? Get a Z06 or a 430. Or buy a Lambo back of sticker. Not buying either, just biatching about price? Thanks for the info. Sorry if it's harsh, but until you drive one awhile, you have NO idea what this thing is like. Nothing like any front-engined 12 ever before. Damn motor and amenities are worth every dime.
Market is there, now. if it disappears, OK. Make the $ when you can. Business 101. Ferrari exists to make money through superior cars. Doubt they lose money in F1 either, many others have.
Luca has made the products first class, a real world, useable car. Enzo's, etc. are just halos.
Ferrari fans buy mugs, models. Customers buy cars.

 

Sfumato......who says I haven't driven one? It's a very, very good car. I don't however appreciate Ferrari treating me with contempt. The way they market their cars in this country is slowly but surely leading to a backlash amongst the newer generation of performance car buyers. Just selling to your favourite 20 or so 'loyal' customers is a sure way to alienate the next generation of enthusiasts. When the economy turns...Ferrari will find itself back in the same situation they did in 90/91...when I seem to recall the local dealer practically begging me to come by and purchase a car (a TR i seem to recall). This present marketing/sales strategy is destined to do long term damage to the marque. No need to debate this...let's just wait and see over the next few years. I still stand by my comments regarding the US buyers however. They seem to be quite content with being ripped off by Ferrari...in contrast to their other markets. Although MSRP buyers appear to have a 'sweet' deal at the moment....remember, the music eventually stops. Then it won't seem so funny. ps. I am a MSRP buyer myself (430 back in July)....still doesn't mean I think it is a good policy. pps. they make you buy the brakes because they can..nothing to do with any legal issues. You contradict yourself with the roll-bar comment. If the brakes are due to safety..then surely mandating roll-bars would be for the same reason? ppps. drove my friends 599 today...no doubt a brilliant car.

 

Clearly you have absolutely no understanding of economic principles affecting commodity products in a relatively free market economy. Whether it is Ferraris or pork Bellies, the price of the commodity, in this case a very scarce commodity relative the demand for the commodity, is set as a function of the total dollars being offered for that product. It makes absolute sense for the seller to get the highest possible price for his product when he can, and if that means loading it up with additional items that generate additional margin from buyers who will pay because of the scarcity of the product, then that is good business and reading the market correctly. As for Europe, their markets are affected by different issues such as taxation, which affects the demand for the product artificially, but to suggest that Ferrari is scared of its buyers - quote "they would be looking over their shoulders every time they stepped outside", is to be totally deranged. I doubt that Europe is a thug economy where suppliers are scared to raise prices lest they get whacked.
You are going on about US Ferrari buyers being sheep and other derogatory comments, when in fact they simply have more resources than you and are prepared to pay more for a scarce product. I detect some issues here that perhaps could be managed in counseling.

 

"When the economy turns..."
Will not mean a thing for Ferrari demand,could maybe lower the premiums but you would not see them languishing on dealer lots.
Unless they fire all their engineers and management and go back to make inferior cars as in early 90's.
When the economy really sours,it would be all those aspiring to Ferrari image and profit that will suffer.(take your pick with Lambos,Porsches,top AMGs or SLRs and so on)

 

I wouldnt write off his possible scenario out of hand. It is possible and I do believe there is concern about this within the halls at Ferrari....... I think you all have solid points on this.

best regards,
Jerry

 

It's always a concern, it doesn't matter if you're making Ferraris in Maranello or widgets in Cleveland. Fear of not having the best product in the market helps drive design teams to do their best.

It's pay to play. If you don't like it, go buy something else. The market has spoken, there is demand for this product and people are willing to pay more than MSRP, prices will go up until they hit the balance point between supply and demand.

 

In Europe the situation is better. There are around 140 ferrari 2007 f430 for sale in europe with an average price between 10 to 15 % higher then the

official MSRP. In my country Belgium the waiting list is 18 months for the V8 and 2 years for the V12. I think it"s logical with the dollar trading at almost 1.40

and for a car company with a low selling volume the currency costs are more difficult to handle than a brand like porshe and ferrari also want to keep the waiting list to a maximum of 2 years .

Besides ferrari every other car company is less expensive in the US then Europe to buy and off topic another advantage of driving in the US (at least in FT Lauderdale)

is the ability to pass cars to the right on the 5 line highway.

 

Well,I disagree about driving here being easier then in Europe.
We have probably the worst,undertrained,selfish bastards on the roads anywhere in the world.
No lane discipline,never look in the mirror (except to correct make-up),blocking the left lane,driving with another car side by side for miles and not letting anyone pass,the list can go on forever...
After US,driving anywhere in Europe is like a breath of fresh air...

 

Pardon ??? Is this true?

 

absent

I was referring about not having the possibility not to pass to the right legitime (without having the risk of a huge fine) because here I also have to deal with people blocking the left lane what can be a problem

because over here (Antwerp) we have to deal with 2 or 3 line highways with huge traffic problems as result . In Germany the situation is very different because people drive completely different

there because they are used to a situation with high speed and driving there is indeed refreshing.

I do agree when driving in the US I have to adjust because of all the people talking on their cellphone (forbidden here) and not paying to much attention and the 65 miles

speed limit is also a problem for a European driving on a refreshing 5 line highway ( at least in my case)

 

They are not "options". The standard US car is equipped with CarbonCeramic brakes and F1 which may be options elsewhere but on US cars they are standard and included in the US base price. I really don't get all the whining. At best the 599 is $300,000 car. I seriously doubt that a 599 buyer has budgeted exactly that much and the additional amount for the standard US items will make him pass on buying the car. Most US buyers who didn't get the car new are paying over $500k fer crissakes!!!

 

410SA....you demonstrate all the qualities I have always 'admired' about a certain subset of Ferrari owners.... Firstly, if you knew what I did for a living you would be somewhat embarrassed with your first comment. Secondly, you (not surprisingly) totally missed the point I was making. The Carbon brakes are FORCED onto the US buyer. The base price is increased by 18K because of it. In Europe you have the choice...and can save the 18K. Hence, the US buyer is being taken advantage of. Your comment about 'US buyers having more resources' due to differing tax regimes...Hahahaha....! Have you been to Europe in the summer? Have you been to Monaco in June? Have you spent a summer on the Cote de Azure? There are more Italian/British/German/Russian zillionaires in one square mile than the Hamptons has in a full summer. Please don't patronize...ok? Your comment about 'economics' is condescending. The only real economic fact at play here is the one I raise in my original post: Ferrari is ripping off it's US customers, alienating it's future customer base, and basically treating the US buyer with thinly veiled contempt. Further, the European dealers do not 'insist' on having a claim against the resale of your property. I realise that you, like many US Ferrari owners voluntarily drink whatever kool-aid Ferrari pours down your throat. I play the same game you do..but it doesn't mean I will blindly accept the treatment as anything less than contemptuous.

ps. regarding your comments about a 'thug' economy in Europe. You would do well to ponder the example of Air France. In the mid 90's, the company attempted to ram through a rather draconian contract on their maintenance workers. The next day, a brand new, just delivered Airbus A340 (about $120M) mysteriously caught fire and burned to the ground. The day after that...contract was withdrawn.

 

So, the $30k of required options are the CCB and F1? I thought FastFiat meant that one had to order $30k of other stuff like leather this, carbon fibre that, etc..., or the car wouldn't be ordered.

 

To clarify: when you go to order your 599, they present you with the 'new' base price, which...surprise, has the 18K brakes added on. You then must order another 17K of options.....for a total of 35K of options (if you include the carbon brakes as an option). Basically, they have insisted that all 599's come with the CCB's....at 18K....and you don't have a choice in the matter. BTW, a brake job which includes disks will run you a cool 28-30K (if you track the car...you WILL be replacing the disks...just ask all the Porsche owners who were talked into the CCB's and then had 12K brake jobs..on a 65K car!). Hope that is of help.

 

Why don't you enlighten us as to what you do for a living so we can perhaps garner some context. As for the rest I stand by my statements. This is a simply a commodity pricing issue, and I don't see anywhere that I stated that US buyers have greater resources than Europeans. I simply pointed out that the relatively higher taxes in Europe have the effect of skewing their markets artificially. You should really learn to debate properly by reading and then understanding the material before you refute a non existent point. To accuse me of being patronizing is so way off base as to be laughable.

Regarding the thugs of Air France and the typical Euro Ferrari customer - similar people in your view? I'm sure under your scenario hordes of well heeled businessmen dressed in Armani will descend on Maranello and set fire to the factory using Mont Blanc lighters and 100 Euro notes as fuel because Ferrari made them order Carbon Brakes!

As to me drinking the kool-aid, are you completely insane? I do what I want when I want, how I want. If I choose to buy a particular vehicle at a particular price with a set of equipment on it that I approve of, then I do it.
Regarding the dealer's claim against your property, if you took the time to search this forum you would see a multitude of threads and posts where the dealer contract is proven to unenforceable as an illegal restraint of trade. Do you know of any, even one, documented case where a dealer asserted this right to repurchase a customer's car. I don't and I have operated in this market for the better part of a quarter of a century.
If you are an economist or something of that ilk you need to go back back to school. No-one is being forced to do anything in this freest of Ferrari markets. The Manufacturer, through it's Representative Dealers offers its wares at a price. Its potential customers accept or decline. Nothing more, nothing less. There is no rip-off. Nothing is being misrepresented. It is what it is. You can clearly do whatever you choose. If you chose to buy, it's like everything else in life - you made an economic choice, taking everything into account, including your own emotions.

 

ooohhhhh, you're obviously a very important man. I will be very careful in future. sorry.

(over 2500 posts...are you KIDDING...?)

 

It has nothing to do with me. You're clearly too important to divulge your secret identity in case I would be embarrased. Too kind of you for sure
(Less than 70 posts and so sure of yourself - you really must be super intelligent, in a secret kind of way)