USA 08 Model Price Increase will be 20%!!!

your quote: '...I do what I want when I want, how I want. If I choose to buy a particular vehicle at a particular price with a set of equipment on it that I approve of, then I do it....'

Now, reference my previous comment.


With respect to the quoted comment, you do 'what you want', 'when you want', 'how you want'......uh, as long as you take the car with CCB's, F1 and another 10K+ of 'options' (which you would of course 'approve of'..) that the dealer forces you to take. Yep, sounds like you are in control....

 

So what do you do for a living?

 

I tend to think that ripping off is buying something in force and then feeling it. Clearly, all these 599 owners feel they are getting what they wanted. If they didnt, the demand would not be there. As for Ferrari, i think they know that they can get away with it here in North America, its called Marketing and its working., Dont like the options, buy something else. It is what it is. Plus, if you buying a 599 wouldnt you want the extras anyway ? after all, whats a few more bucks when your at that level.

 

What I do is not particularly any business of yours Mike. I referenced it in the communication to 410 because he made a disparaging comment regarding my 'understanding' of economics. My friends and colleagues (many of whom are Ferrari owners as well..) found his comment hilarious. It seems many of you can't seem to address the simple facts about the situation that I raise. If you are happy being taken advantage of by Ferrari...so be it. No skin of my nose. I was addressing the fact that the US market and it's buyers are treated as chumps by the brass back in Italy. A simple comparison of how they deal with the respective national markets ably demonstrates that. As for the 'marketing' of their vehicles: If you only allow a dealer in a major US city 4 or 5 599's a year....how exactly is that 'marketing'? With such a limited supply, you could force your buyers to show up in the dealership wearing a pink tutu and they would comply. All that is happening is that Ferrari is milking the cow while the grass is tall. One day that will come to an end, and Ferrari will find their US buyers have very long memories. Right now, most of you seem content to be dictated to by the dealers. Certainly your choice.

 

Andrew:
Yep. We're all mindless drones. I overpaid for dinner, they forced me to order canapes and dessert, and I paid 40% markup on the wine.
F1 is 10k, 95% production is such, base IIRC is 275
CCB are 18k. Your information comparing Ferodo CCB and PCCB is in error. Early PCCB's were, for lack of a better term, crap. Steel far better choice on those cars. Later PCCB's better, but not as good as Ferodo CCB. Many Stradale owners have not had issues, and the rotors are 6k. I'm on my 3rd car with FCCB, and I have had no issues, despite driving very hard.
So where is the balance of the extra money?
Your Airbus story is completely irrelevant. Although it was France.
I, like Alex, have owned F-cars for 30 years. Vintage and new alike. Even an F1 car in family. You whine about rip-offs? You must not play in Corse Clienti or Uwe Meissner league.
Face it, there are more customers than cars. Back in 90's when F40's went to 1M, then crumped, do you truly believe any of that hurt Ferrari? Please.
When supply outstrips demand, I'll still be driving one.
By the way, the "I'm special, I make a living doing something fabulous" saw is great for third grade. You show up, *****ing about FNA, asking questions which quite frankly many of us can answer in the affirmative, and act like you're too special to own what you do.
Glad your Ferrari owning friends thought some comments were funny. They must be as crass and self absorbed as you.

To directly answer your opinions (not FACTS). Actually all markets are treated differently by Ferrari. Japan, Oz, China all have issues, and the EU has more dealers, better availability, hence more competition, hence lower prices. Plus the angry mobs with torches and pitchforks.
The "Brass" only makes x cars. If x+1 want them, value goes up. If flippers fill demand, OK, but why shouldn't Ferrari make more, get cars into real customer hands. The only "customers" with long memories about deals are those who overpaid to a broker, or flippers who didn't get the yield they wanted.
The dealers don't dictate jack. Give them deposit, wait. Order. Pick up. Drive.
The right of first refusal letters are there as a dealer loses an allocation if a customer flips the car. If you get 4-5 599's, and one flips, you get 3-4 599's. So, the dealers are at flipper's mercy. The letters are likely unenforceable, but at least the burden is off the dealer.
And flippers WON'T get another car from that dealer, unlikely from Ferrari either.
So maybe your bitterness about the US market stems from a flip you did, and now can't get any more cars? Probably as secret as your career. Lemme guess, you're a fluffer?
I think you need to stop buying F-cars in protest.
PS: Alex lives in Phoenix area, maybe you guys can get together.
PPS: Not surprised you own a Lambo. J/K. Old member here had similar personality, bashed Ferrari whenever possible.

 

Sfumato. I also know your name, but I don't believe in transgressing on the community rules as you obviously do. I don't suppose that you would mind the moderator considering this point. Perhaps you can show some integrity and modify it yourself? As for mentioning Alex, whom I know, you seem to be on first name terms with everyone. There is a reason for 'Usernames'....but that particular code of conduct probably doesn't apply to you. Funny how many of the owners on this site resort to personal attack when their precious 'marque' is questioned. Your post says much about you as a person. My posts have focused on the issue in question. I will of course be happy to discuss this with you in person when we next meet. Looking forward to it...

ps. at the risk of boring you by reminding you of the content of my original post...the US market is treating it's customers with the utmost of contempt, as a comparison to the rules governing other markets will PLAINLY show. Your attempt to excuse it away is predictable. Try and stick on topic instead of resorting to ad hominem attacks. Usually that displays weak character and a poor argument.

 

Andrew:
You posted your name and location yourself in a Murcielago thread when I looked to see where your bitterness and intransigence came from.

Some insults towards Welsh breaks TOS, so get off your high horse.

You have stated opinion as fact. You were arrogant and rude, insistent. You have ranted about this for many of your posts even outside this thread. Glad you have an opinion. Stop shouting it incessantly, we get it. We don't care about your opinion. I don't like some things about how Ferrari treats dealers, but I don't bleat about it.
Weak character and poor argument indeed. The Air France and PCCB nonsense were just that.
I could say a few Lambo owners are aggressively intent upon attacking Ferrari, either the car, the business practices, or whatever. Perhaps insecurity. I'd be upset too if each successive US Lambo distributor has had problems (current one seems pretty good), and some new cars sell at discount. Ask someone about early Gallardos or Diablo Spyder issues and how the distributor treated them.
Your user name implies a Ferrari is a fast Fiat. That it is. And a Lambo is a fast Audi (actually good for Lambo), and has been a fast Chrysler, a fast Proton or whatever the Malaysian parent was. I still like them, friends have them.
So, I don't really care if I meet you or not, I just disagree. Please complain to a mod if you wish. Reread the TOS as well.
I know Alex through here and his old username before that. Many of us know each other. I posted your first name and locale based on your posting it. Puzzling why you were offended.
If you know Alex, you were incredibly rude responding to him. As you were to others. I'm not defending them, I dislike your self-entitlement. Your posts say a lot about you as a person.
You are boring reiterating the same thing, waiting for us all to say "We've been had". That's a fact--no, wait, that's an opinion.
Lee
I post in Texas section a bit.
I also lost a dog lately but I have a new pup.
I read that thread long ago, we lost Lilli about that time, I had read Marley and Me around then too.
I have Welch, Irish, and Brit friends.
Any more "is not particularly any business of yours".

 

Fast Fiat, I'm not sure I would go as far as to allege that Ferrari -- and its dealers in the U.S. -- treat their customers with "the utmost of contempt" but assuming they do, the question is: Why are they able to get away with it? The reason is customers are willing to put up with a lot in order to get that which they desperately want and that which they can't get from anyone else.

This situation reminds me of the classic "Soup Nazi" Seinfeld episode where everyone stands in lock step to get soup from a total jerk. Why? After all, literally thousands of other establishments in that city sell soup too. Well, the Soup Nazi didn't sell just any soup and Ferrari doesn't sell just any car. People stand in line to buy Ferraris or soup or any other product for the same reason.

 

What happens if you want a 599 with manual GB and steel brakes ? Will the MSRP be lowered by 18k+10k ? ( That is assuming you were on the list since Moise last showed up..)

 

Don't know...
There are ,however,US spec 599s with manual tranny and 599s with steel brakes driving around.
(regardless of what Fast Fiat says...)
The question rather should be :
Why would anyone spending $340-350k on a car ,decide to settle for inferior brakes ($20k charge really is irrelevant at that pricing level) or a transmission that makes the car slower and does not complement the overall technological Tour De Force 599 really is?

 

I can tell you they will allow you to order a 612 with a manual gearbox. Not sure about the 599, but I would imagine you could. I've certainly seen a manual 599.

 

Sfumato. You obviously consider yourself some sort of self styled web police. Regardless of all the ad hominem aggression that you disseminate, my posts were simply a reflection of my observation on how Ferrari deals with the US market, and why I find it offensive. If you have a different opinion, that is fine...but why exactly would my opinion not be worthy of being judged on the facts? I could go on and line by line debate your comments, but it's really become rather boring. I will close my part in this by simply saying that you are more defensive than inquisitive. You should perhaps spend a bit more time reviewing all the aspects of the US Ferrari operation and a bit less in shouting out insults and invective. I find the vulgarity and vitriol of your comments speak eloquently as to your intellect.

 

I said I disagree. Vulgarity and vitriol? Web police? You now say opinion rather than stating your point as fact. If offensive, don't buy, don't complain. Narcissism is a rough burden for you, we all can see. Ferrari clearly doesn't recognize what an important person you are. Nor did we. Boring indeed. Go meddle in another thread, your opinion is clear, and tiresome.

Back to our regularly scheduled thread.

6-speed steel brake cars are in the US. I think Sean Harris delivered a black/black ccb canelloni seat car recently, and there is a red/tan in Autoweek in NY area. Alan from Houston spotted a red/tan ccb @ historics, and Kingair33 saw another black/black in Monterey, with standard upholstery. I think there is a pic of a Silverstone/cuoio here somewhere too.
Ca va Andrew M! Is there a 599 in the garage yet, or just ETA?The MSRP of a 6-speed is indeed 10k lower. I am unsure if new orders will have CCB as standard (mandatory option). If so, just 10k back. If steel brakes available, just no upcharge. The March price increase of 15k included nothing.
+1 Mark. F-1SF is pretty amazing. Driving yours a lot? Pretty car with the burgundy. Red interiors too bright for me, dark colors on outside really bring out the curves.
And Mike
PS, sorry for first names I don't know if that is vitriol or vulgar.
Lee
PPS Ron, after starting the thread and a few PM's, did you order the car yet? FoSD I assume?
Image Unavailable, Please Login

 

Hmmm, let me think about what you might do for a living. Do the letters KW mean anything?

Just so you know, it is against community rules to have two user accounts.

 

ylshih, two usernames....that would disqualify about half the users on this forum...! The KW reference would be....wrong! (I use the real estate license to handle numerous transactions for my own account...why give the money away?). Sfumato....I had a wife like you once...but you probably have better legs...! ;-)

 

Wow, Sfumato. You got him to complete change his tone and break out the big words to defend his intellect!

 

....no, the word should be...'completely'....(bigger word than complete). Happy to be of help.

 

Sfumato....just read your last post (always a relaxing read...!). How can you have a 'mandatory option'...? ( I do realise we are talking of 'Ferrari World' here).

 

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=definately

A mandatory option is an option that must be ordered. Pretty clear. Initially seen on US performance cars, i.e. 4-speed mandatory option with R or Q-code engines in big Fords in 60's. Generally a homologation issue. Not a "Ferrari world" issue. FIA often mandates things like that. I hold that in this case it is likely a legal decision, and the absence of a rollbar option the same. The rollbar implies protection from harm in rollover (see Jeep case law). Bigger brakes could imply inadequate steel brakes. Ludicrous, but in a car of this performance, not worth product liability.

 

Your estimate is somewhat optimistic. Regardless, the ones that are found out are subject to ban.

It may be you have additional sources of income or other business; but you just confirmed that at least part of what you do is to buy or sell real estate in Arizona using a salesperson license. Further you're now implying that you're the type of person that worries about 1% when they have much bigger business to transact; however I guess we knew that given the tone of your complaints on this thread.

 

This thread reminds me of a Marx Brothers routine:

Groucho: What do you get an hour?

Chico: For playing, we get-a ten dollars an hour.

Groucho: I see. What do you get for not playing?

Chico: Twelve dollars an hour. Now for rehearsing we make special rates. That’s-a fifteen dollars an hour.

Groucho: And what do you get for not rehearsing?

Chico: You couldn’t afford it. You see, if we don’t rehearse, and if we don’t-a play, that runs into money.

 

Hi Bill:
Fast Fiat/Casino Square reminded me of Glengarry Glen Ross.
Blake: First prize is (a 599). Anybody want to see second prize?
[Holds up prize]
Blake: Second prize is a set of steak knives. Third prize is you're (banned).
A point is best proven when shouted over and over as fact. Fun thread though.
Hey, here's a thread He started and replied to himself 1 post later
http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?p=136344953#post136344953

 

Well, this thread turned into a pissing contest. Maybe, if we put personalities/egos aside, and looked at facts.

I hate to say it but is it really a secret that most Ferrari dealers (especially US ones), take advantage of their customers?

Mandatory options, is a bit of an oxymoron. The word option implies choice to me. Making it mandatory takes away the 'option' idea. Is there any secret that the US dealers jack up the service prices for their customers? I could ship my car to Europe, and have a major service done. Have a vacation and ship it home........for the price of a US dealer service, that from my experience has been broderline criminal at best.

The whole US vs Euro debate that had the dealers and FNA saying everything except that Euro cars were inferior was stupid and obviously done to protect themselves and their dealers. 360s were world cars, except for a few minor details.

Nobody likes to be told that they are making poor choices (especially in this league), and everyone is entitled to their opinion, but these dealers are nothing more than Kia salesman in Armani suits, but as long as there are guys standing with their hands up....you can only expect to get robbed.

It is pretty well known that Leno won't buy a Ferrari because of the way that he was treated by Fcar dealers...and frankly I won't give them any of my hard earned money because of the way I have been treated. But that's just me....to each his own. If these dealers/Ferrari, lost sales/service whenever they mistreated or took advantage of a client, I think we all know they would be out of business. But we keep coming back. We teach them how to treat us....

 

Considering you were part of the whole Cluxton D*ckhead thing, and were going to write an article about it, I doubt the "facts" have a damn thing to do with your current post, since Andrew is your associate. http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showpost.php?p=135421543&postcount=11 Glad you look out for your friends.
My dealer is a great guy, and I waited on top of the list for 6 years to get a 599. Put deposit down when I bought my second Maranello. MSRP. Not a poor choice, a choice based on knowing the next V12 2 seater would be aluminum like the V8's, and significantly stronger. Nothing else. I could have walked, but didn't. Bought a few more cars in meantime.
I don't care what Leno or whomever buys. I buy what I like, and I don't overpay. 500+ is a lot for a 599, but MSRP isn't, even at 120% of MSRP. If you don't think any of us should buy Ferraris, great. If my dealer mistreated me, I'd walk. FNA screws with dealers all the time on service issues, so they are stuck in middle. And if you knew anything about car stores, the money is made on the backside of the store, and used cars.
As I said, A mandatory option means you can only buy the car that spec, and the option isn't free. Ergo sticker higher. Take rate on CCB is 80% anyway, so what's your point?
BTW, service prices are fine here, and the 599 needs very little in way of service long term, and they lengthened the warranty to 3y from 2y on old V12's.
So thanks for continuing the bleat. I'm happy I have a 599 @ MSRP, I'd have paid more if need be, 6 years was worth wait, and many other owners in this thread feel that way as well. Sue FNA or FSpA if your case is so great. Pissing match indeed. You guys into the wind, it seems.

 

Wow! You obviously have alot of free time, and nothing else to do to actually research web threads on a site that is based on 'opinions' of different people, who bring different experiences to the table. Good for you for having free time.

I am very happy that you love your car and your dealer. I hope that you live happily ever after together. Those are YOUR opinions and experiences. I, and I am sure many others have different, less positive ones. But it really isn't fair to force your 'opinion' down other's throats.

I, personally wouldn't wait 15 minutes for a seat at a restaurant, let alone 6 years for a car. Let alone a car that looks far too much like a Vette for my tastes. But, you see....that's MY OPINION, based on my experiences/tastes, and what I am willing to put up with. There are obviously alot of new Ferrari buyers who are willing to put up with alot......buying Maseratis to get on the 'list'...buying other used/new cars from dealers who can't move them to get on the 'list'....lists that are written in pencil and if an envelope just happens to fall in the right hands......all of a sudden you are on the 'list'....selling items that are supposed to come with cars as.... 'options'. I don't have the time to keep going. But these are things that I am not willing to put up with. If you haven't had to deal with this treatment...good for you.

If you really think a 'mandatory option' isn't really an 'option', then there is nothing more to say on that. But that's YOUR opinion.

We all buy what we like, or what we think is fair......so your point that you do that doesn't make you special. It also doesn't make sense. If you are happy with dealer service and prices.....again.....good for you. That is your opinion. I just don't happen to share those opinions.

I don't know you, or anything about you...which is fine with me. My reference to a 'pissing match had nothing to do with you, just the feel of the thread. 410SA and I have been personal friends for 10-12 years, way before the internet provided places for egos to hide. We can agree and we can disagree, but in the end we are friends. It just seemed what started as a spirited debate, degraded (as usual), to personal attacks. Sometimes, this group are less mature than the kids on the M3 sites when it comes to taking things personally.

and incidently.......the guy that you referenced in your 'research' was a jerk that day. THE END!