Question for the lawyers re:checking out at stores

Many stores these days have a person at the door who asks to see your receipt. I was thinking the other day about this... how is it legal?

After I have paid for my items, then I own them right? So what legal authority does the person at the door have to check those items? They are MY property at that point. They are not law enforcement officers so they have no powers of arrest, and cannot use probable cause (i.e. that I could be stealing) as an excuse.

I don't think implied consent comes into it because I was not notified during checkout that my personal items would be subject to search. Also, how can a private entity compel a consumer to submit to a search of their posessions? How is it different than them coming out to my car and demanding to search it? If one of these bag checkers stopped a person from exiting the store, would they not be guilty of false imprisonment or false detention (or whatever the crime is)???

Isnt the most the store would be able to do is ban you from shopping there again? I am thinking of the legalities here, not "why dont you just let them do your job" type stuff. If any legal eagles believe they have the right to search your purchased items, what is the basis for that belief?

 

Interesting philospohical observation.

I only seem to get this treatment at Sam's Club. Each time I do, I think to myslef that there is no way the "lady before the exit door" can count and/or recognise/verify the 65 seperate items I have purchased in the 2 seconds she looks at the receipt. As such....

1. Is she a simply a decoy/visable deterant for people who are not smart enough to correctly shoplift...

2. Does she actually "do" something

or....



As to the actuall "ownership" issue... the items are probably not officially yours until you leave their property. Often times people can stuff items in their pockets, shirt, etc... but until they actually attemt to "leave" the property, they wont be stopped for shoplifitng. As I understand it, shoplifting/stealing does nto occur until you take said itmes "off" the owners property...could be wrong.


Interesting

 

I don't really mind this practice at Costco.

The only other place I have experienced this was at Best Buy. The store was not busy, I was the only person headed out the door, the door was only about 10 steps from the register, and I was carrying a box with a microwave oven in it, with the sales receipt in my pocket, when I was approached by a young man asking me to produce the receipt. I was not happy about it, and I told him so. I also told him to tell the manager that I would not be shopping there again. I don't care if it's legal or not, it's RUDE.

 

I show it. Who cares...?

I have a friend that is an absolute total complete ******* about it and EVERYTIME he goes in with me I have to give him a talking to in the parking lot about how to behave when he is with me in those stores. He is friggin 42 years old.

Theft is so bad that they have to do something. The way I see it is I don't have to go in to begin with. If I choose to enter and make a purchase I then have to follow a very easy rule. No big deal. Anyone that doesn't like it doesn't have to go in and buy something, right? Take your business somewhere else and spend the rest of your time worring about something else that's more important.

Of course that's just my opinion, I could be wrong.

 

I love this topic. The club stores are one thing, as they can revoke your membership. Outside of those (Costco, Sams, etc.), the hell with any goon that wants to see my proof of purchase. I buy something and walk out the door. With my sun glasses on and a nervous look on my face, when they say "May I see your receipt", I say NO THANK YOU and keep walking. Sometimes I'll look over my shoulder a couple times with that 'I ripped you off look'.

I'm just waiting for some bozo security person to confront me in the parking lot and drag me back in the store. I'd have Art on the phone so fast it would make his head spin and in three months, he'll have a Yellow Enzo!

So to answer your question, NEVER show your receipt to ANYONE outside of the club stores that you pay a fee to belong to.

 

Why?

Are you so terribly incoveinenced by the 5 seconds it takes to do it?

Are you miffed at the fact that they may not trust you or consider you a suspect?

Not trying to start something, but you don't really provide a reason for not compling with the store policy... you just say NEVER do it...why?

Actually re-read your position and it seems you do it in hopes they will confront you and give you grounds to lay down a silly lawsuit.

 

But consider this...

When do you "leave" the property? When you walk through the door? When you leave the parking lot? Lets say its not yours until you walk through the door... so lets say you drop something before you go out the door and a kid picks it up and runs away. Will the store give you the money back for that item or replace it? No way, right? Same with leaving the parking lot - if you get your stuff stolen in the lot no way will they consider it their loss. I would say that the point of ownership transfer is when the transaction is completed. At a more basic level, when you release the cash from your hand, or click "OK" on the pin number entry screen, or click "OK" after entering your signature, you have provided consideration for the goods (money) and the receipt is just a copy of the transaction details.

 

I dont see why anyone has a problem with this...

Are those 30 seconds of your life that big a deal ? Its not like they are random searches (which I could see as degrading and violating your rights) ..its simply a store policy...big deal.

 

I am not talking about the "come on , who cares" angle. I would say that can be used to justify many things - we could tap your phone, or randomly search car trunks in the parking lot under the same justification. But what justification (legally) do they have to compel you to submit to a search upon leaving? I dont see how it could be legal.

In situations where you sign a contract (like Costco, Sams Club) agreeing to a search, then you have been notified of it and have agreed to it. But when you walk into Walmart, Best Buy, Sears or whatever, often times where you enter is NOT where the registers are. And you may not even know that such a search is requested until AFTER you have checked out, at which point you have not been given an option and you own the goods.

 

Proactive compared to reactive.

 

I agree with you 100% Peter. I think that the more leeway you give these people, the more they take. I can understand wanting to prevent theft, but I do not think a consumer should ever voluntarily give up their rights under any circumstances they are not required to.

 

IMO "why not" is never a reason to give up your rights.

You can justify many things with "but if you did nothing wrong you have nothing to fear". IMO it doesnt hold water. I object to it because it labels me as some sort of potential shoplifter, and I do not like people poking through what I bought and checking to see what it all was. If I go through self-checkout for buying a tub of vaseline, 10 packs of condoms and some grape jelly, thats my business. Once I have paid I own the goods. The store has no right at all to search my belongings and I have every right to refuse such a search.

 

So you're OK with a security guard checking your cars trunk before you pull out of the lot? If not, why not? Yes its your property, so are the things you bought. They could just be checking to be sure you didnt stash something there. Why is one OK and the other not?

 

You agreed to walk into their premise. You did not have to. It is a private business, and if you don't know like their practice, shop elsewhere.
They have a right to verify you are leaving with goods purchased as well, that you did not get charged for something by accident. Its not like they are running out to your car and then asking for the receipt...And its not a search of your person. its a search of the products leaving their store. Same thing walking in, with a return, you have to check in with them, good entering their store and leaving are checked. It is not an invasion of your privacy.

 

Why?

Are you so terribly incoveinenced by the 5 seconds it takes to do it?

Yes, it's annoying. You are in the line of the guilty until they prove you have not stolen anything. You are 'Sheeple' and committed no crime.


Are you miffed at the fact that they may not trust you or consider you a suspect?

Yes, by all means! That's what they have overhead cameras for. I am an honest customer, not a thief and do not want to be treated as a prospective one.


Not trying to start something, but you don't really provide a reason for not compling with the store policy... you just say NEVER do it...why?

Because I do not have to and it is not a law. It may be mandated in an agreement you sign when you joing Costco, etc., and that's 100% OK with me, but NEVER in any other store.

Actually re-read your position and it seems you do it in hopes they will confront you and give you grounds to lay down a silly lawsuit.

These are not minor lawsuits. It's a BIG DEAL if a security person drags you back into the store against your will.

I can never figure out why people actually stand in these lines to have their purchase inspected. Again, SHEEPLE!

 

you don't know pete....

 

Walking IN with a return item is much difference. You want to make sure somebody sees you walk in and go straight to the return desk for help.

 

your spelling is shot to ****. Did you lick the positive and negative side of batteries at the same time?

 

Actually I believe you are wrong. I DO NOT believe they have a right to check to ensure what you leave with is what you paid for. They are not the police, and even the police must have probable cause. At the point I have paid for the items, I own them. They are MY property, and it is no different than them saying "I need to see inside your pockets sir and your handbag maam".

As for "if you dont like the practice shop elsewhere", sorry that does not hold water. Thats like me telling anyone who parks on the street in front of my house that I require a search of their car and you saying they can just "park elsewhere". That does not give me the right to do something unlawful and the correct response is never "just go elsewhere".

I specifically asked about the legalities of this and everyone who is arguing my original point has used the "what do you care, if you dont like it go elsewhere" argument. I specifically said I didnt accept that as a response to me question because I am interested in the legalities.

What right does the store have to search MY property when I leave? Make no mistake, the bag I carry the goods in is just as much my property as my jeans pockets or my girlfriends handbag.

"Go elsewhere" does not cut it because you have no choice - you can't just go get your money back - you'd have to exit the store and return to get to the returns desk. The customer has no choice, never agreed to the search and does not have to submit to it, IMO.

 

Next time you are at Darth's, we'll go to Fry's and I'll buy stuff and walk out. Hell, we'll do the same at Best Buy and others! I know!

Reminds me of the time I bought a large TV at Fry's and carted it out without showing the receipt. It was huge and several people were really bent because I did not show them anything on the way out. One of the employees followed me out to my truck, but did not say anything. I asked him if he needed a pen and paper to write down my license plate number! He walked away after that!

 

dude, I will always remember when you threw those cracker jacks out the door and into the car, and hopped in and drove away. HAHAHA. I had no idea you paid for them.

 

"right" was the wrong word. Sorry. I actually re-read my post searching for where I said that, but you are correct.

But to follow up, this site has more then enough info on the legalities. It all about being voluntary and as stated, they do it on the premise of checking to make sure they did their job. Not that you are stealing. Again, you can deny it and walk out and unless they have seen you hide goods (as I have seen happen) they can not legally detain you. I have no issue with it as I have worked in retail for many years and have seen LP work wonders.

http://www.crimedoctor.com/loss_prevention_3.htm

 

THAT was pretty funny and the guy at the counter was cool when I asked him to ring it up and I would grab it on the way out! I stole one thing in my life. It was a 1-cent piece of Tootsie Roll when I was about six. My father busted me with it and he drove me back to the store and made me give it back to the manager. My father was a good man.

 

he didn't speak english! And when he started walking towards the door I was thinking, "Oh ****, he is gonna start yelling"

 

Yeah I had seen that site on Google - it looks like they have no right to compel you to submit to a search but they can ask you to.

Here's a story - on another forum a guy told a story of checking out at Home Depot. They asked to see the receipt and he said "NO thanks" and kept going. The guy grabbed his cart and said "You cannot leave until I check your bags". The guy said "move out of my way before you get run over" and the guard threatened to call the police. The guy said "go ahead and call the police!". The manager came over and tried to say its a policy to avoid theft. The guy said he was leaving and basically went on his way. That really made me pissed because if the guard had tried that on me, I would consider it wrongful detention or whatever its called. And if the guard laid hands on me I would consider that assault. If he did it to my girlfriend I would raise hell. I would want him charged with assault and battery, and wrongful arrest/kidnapping or something.

I just see it as exactly the same as them following me to my car and demanding to search the car. I would just laugh - my property, my business

Thanks for your commentary - enjoyed debating it with ya.