A Ferrari 308 being reborn

Come by my house next....darn cats are sleeping on my engine hood!

Lookin' good, brudda!

Red was the right choice, IMO...eventually, all the early 308GTBs will be red....LOL!

 

Nope, if I ever get to it 21181 will be blue. Not the same blue it left Modena with, but blue just the same. Rico, your cars looking awesome, youve been an inspiration. I have actually gotten rather brave of late. I have a lot of sanding, polishing and paint tools, I just have never been very good at doing it. Funny, I just bought a bottle of that 3M stuff from NAPA, man does that stuff make it shine. Anyway, I was reading a book as to how back in the early days, they would brush on a coat of paint and hand sand it between coats, until in many cases they had put over 40 coats of paint on the cars. They they would "float" on a thick coat of clear over it, again with a brush. No wonder those old cars were so pretty. And actually, spraying was considered "cheap" back in the day. So I figured if they could brush paint a car and sand it out until it shined like a mirror, I ought to be able to do something with this. So there I am, sanding on a 308. The HORROR!!!

So anyway, I have been "doctoring" on the #2 car, taking out bubbles, scratches etc.. Napa matched the color really good on the part I showed them, but unfortunatly the entire car isnt all the same color. So I will end up spraying sections of the car until I can get it all to match. I have been braver and done more things with this car than I have ever done in my life. And I honestly believe I have many of you guys on Fchat to blame for corrupting me.

Tex, can you post a pic of one of your 308's with the boxer trim around the doors and sills? I cant help myself, I want to do it on this car. I just would like to see how they ended the paint lines behind the doors. Also, anyone know the correct color I should use? Would any good satin black work? Is it the same paint they use in the engine compartment, under the front bonnet, and frame sections? Will one paint do it all??

Rico, where is SD are you???

 

My sister and brother in law lived up in Hill City for awhile, my nephew would have had his HS grad ceremony under Mt. Rushmore had he graduated there. Stunning area, there are some truly phenomenal roads out there for these cars.

 

I just looked at this thread for the first time. Rico, can you tell us what the original color code was? I was told my (resale)red car was originally met. gold. I don't care for gold that much but would prefer it now because it isn't red! My car is a '77, #20695. What year is yours?

 

Wow your number is really close to mine. 20623 '76 GTB

 

Wait 'till you look down the headers, they are mismatched to the head (too small) by almost 2mm......

Don;t have any Boxer Trim cars here right now........one in shop and another stranded at the Ranch behind AJ Foyt's shop.....I'll get them for you though...

Man, I just broke a beer bottle and gouged the red car's hood!

*spraying clear Krylon across it*

Well, it was headed for paint anyway....

If you register your VIN on the Factory website, they will confirm OEM codes in the My Garage section........put all the VINs you own in there and they will respond...gets you on the email Newsletter also.......

 

Ferrari was great at foundry work.....so so at engine assembly.

A v12 was trashed at the crank bearings, by all the shavings left behind in the cross drilling of the oil journals, stuff happened that way in the old days.......

 

There are some polarized theories regarding all that mismatching. Some seem to think it was done to cause turbulence which would actually "increase" air flow and help emissions. Others seem to be of the opinion Ferrari were just crude and didnt care. I am that odd man out kinda guy, I believe they actually did it all on purpose.

In that time frame there was a lot of stock production class car racing going on. I believe Ferrari kept their cards close to thier chest, and detuned the engine in as many ways as possible to make it as difficult as possible for anyone to extract much power without a lot of guess work. Here we are 30 years down the road, and there is still no consensus as to as to why this was done, or how to make it flow optimally or how best to approach it. But I would guarantee you Ferrari knew way back then. If Ferrari had ever had a knee jerk reaction to go into a full works team in stock production with the 308, they would want to have the advantage, and keeping that engine as mysterious as possible to the outside world would be to thier best advantage.

In the high performance market where people have done port and flow bench work on these engines, the people who it do keep thier secrets just as tight and wont share them. They post dyno results or flow bench reports, but they keep their specific work a mystery in the hope you will send them your heads. So we still are all left in the dark.

But I know this much, there are barely any production engines made that have ports that mismatched. Even an old Ford Escort had a cleaner transition in port matching than these cars do. It seems utterly rediculous that Ferrari would have someone smooth out the manifolds and head ports that smooth, and not match the ports closer than this. And as Tex eluded, wait til you see the exhaust. They offset the exhaust ports over 1/8 inch off center from the gasket flange and made the entire port rediculously huge. Now when the header mounts up, its not only sitting offset to the port, but its "smaller" than the port. Most seem of the opinion that to correct it would require welding the port and remachining it smaller and in true alignment with the header. Thats a great deal of work to do to correct it.

I have a section of 308 cylinder head that was sent to me in the hope I could figure out how best to make it flow better. The road to hell is paved with good intentions, and I have fallen way behind in goals I set for myself. But I havnt forgot my commitment, and I have that chunk sitting out in plain sight to remind me every day what I need to do. My intent is to build a flow bench and play with that chunk and try to "massage" it. Specifically, I want to do a before and after test with an intake manifold and see if simply matching the ports will increase flow. Ibelieve it will. I also believe the carbs need to match the manifold, as the manifolds are bored for 44 mm carbs. Maybe that is telling us something??? I have a box of urethane mold making material and its my intent to make molds of both ports and combustion chamber as well as the manifold, and make a crude "head" out of plaster. If I can ever get off my a$$ and get working on this stuff, it should prove interesting. Its sad to see that a whole year has just about slid by with no results.

 

I'd like to know how you got those heads off so fast. Everything I've ever read is they are a huge PITA to get off.

The timing marks are back by the distributors which you’d move around to get the timing right. It would be kinda difficult to try and time it on one end when the dizzy’s are on the other (at least without some help).

 

The flywheel is a good place for a mark since it will never move out of time in relation to the crank like a balancer with a rubber bonded ring on it can. You can use a dial indicator and verify your flywheel marks now so you know they are right plus its easy to see with a timing light in the car. I think its a great idea to have the marks there.

 

As Newman pointed out, the dampener that carried those marks was mounted to the hub with rubber. Years of flexing eventually rotates the dampener section around the hub and there is no way of knowing where its at. I cant count the times ive ran into cars you tried timing with a light, and if you got anywhere near the correct marks on the crank the engine wouldnt run. The flywheel marks wont ever move. But!

Tex, myself and some others have found the TDC would not align with the indicator plate without modifying the mounting holes to allow more swing. Mine was indicating an actual TDC that was 3 degrees retarded. If your already off 3 degrees, and all your valve timing and ignition settings are set to that mark, the whole thing is outta whack. Just an FYI, but the early euro car is virtually the same engine and parts, but with 4 degrees different valve timing and a rated power (though still unconfirmed) of 255 HP. Anyway, 3 degrees could make a remarkable difference in performance.

 

There's a sketch somewhere on here of the various timing marks stamped on the ring and what they are for.

Renewing them with paint will improve visiblity, once it's back together...

 

I been rebirthing my own over here. I figured I would break it, but I took out the windshield because it was installed horribly. It was sunk down in the frame and wasnt sealed, leaked like a sieve. It was installed without cleaning out all the old butyl, then they used RTV, I found some surface rust that wasnt repaired, rusty moulding clips.... So while your in there...I recovered the dash and headliner with vat dyed leather. Been touching up nicks and chips, re spraying small areas, restored the windshield sill, sanding and buffing out the paint here and there. Polished the wheels... Still have a long ways to go. The windshield cracked coming off a chip in the edge. The thing is chipped all the way around under the RTV, they really messed it up good. So while I'm waiting to fund that fiasco (somebody buy my cam pulleys on eBay), it gives me the excuse to just keep on going. I wouldnt have had to polish the wheels if it wasnt for Big Tex complaining about how crappy they looked. See what you started brudda?
Image Unavailable, Please Login
Image Unavailable, Please Login
Image Unavailable, Please Login
Image Unavailable, Please Login
Image Unavailable, Please Login

 

That dash looks great!!! The dash vinyl is the only cheep looking part of the 308 interior IMO.

It'd be nice to have a well done leather dash.