again the vatican says why f owners are siners

Methinks the Vatican should concern itself more with how many angels can dance on the head of a pin. Until my F-car is struck down by lightning while on the road, thine self and The Almighty are on great terms...

 

Ahh let me see, perhaps a brief review of history is in order here: consistant and unrelenting history of repression of creative or critical thought (Galileo, Capernicus, Luther etc etc), physical torture and murder (spanish inquistion), cultural genocide (pick any indiginous peoples lucky enough to be "colonized"), silence in the face of the jewish slaughter in WWII, sexual abuse scandalas. There are probably many other examples but you get the idea. IMHO the Catholic church forfeited any claim it had to be a moral beacon for the world centuries ago. Why anyone would even read, let alone grant any credibility to what they had to say is a mystery to me.

This excuse that it's not the church's fault it's the people in charge is nonsense. History also shows that it's the people in charge that always interpret what god wants. What a croc! Thankfully we live in countries that believe in the separation of church and state.

Don't mean to offend any sincere catholics out there but the history speaks for itself.

 

Oh well, I was born and raised Catholic, I even saw Pope John 2nd a mere 10 feet away from me. Not long ago a Forza magazine came out with a topic about a Spaniard of a family with many titles, he was a Borgia and the Mille Miglia was the raced in which he was killed and that was the last Mille Miglia race. Well look up the Borgia family, the Church and you'll see a lot of interesting stuff. Google the House of Borgia and I bet something will show up and yes this guy was a Borgia. Anyway I don't follow the Catholic Church anymore and even less a christian minister as that would be really pathetic. I believe in God and I have a personal relationship with him, I don't need nobody to unite me with him. People be smart and pray from home, your car, any place as no one needs to join a stupid club to make someone else rich.

 

Interesting response. FWIW i did read the article, and personally i dont think the vatican should make such comments as being specific. Why did they not inclide Lambos ???? MB CLS 500???.....M6 BMW ??? How is this any different than saying i have more food than someone across the globe ? I already give, i do think of myself as a good Christian Roman Cath...but i think comments or suggestions like this that are VERY direct is uncalled for.

After all , we are all human...including themselves....when the Vatican decides to give up some of that gold they got to go to the poor, i will then really consider selling at least one of my ferrari's ,...........and still the gold they give up, came from me and my family and people like me giving to my local church every sunday .......

BTW: Jesus died for my sins didnt he ? I cant let him die in vein now can i ??? therefore i must sin

PS...at the end of the day if the world would just follow 10 simple laws that Moses set out we would all be in a happier place

 

Not sure JC intended to encourage sin with his sacrifice... but I suppose that's one interpretation.


As for the rest of your comments... again, it really doesn't sound like you read the doc... did you read the Vatican document, or just that silly "news" article interviewing the guy from Ferrari?

The Vatican doc doesn't say "sell all your cars and give the money to the poor"; it doesn't even say "thou shalt not buy a car more expensive than $XXX"; it surely doesn't say "don't own a Ferrari". It really just says, don't let the power and freedom you get while driving lead to you treating the people around you badly. Which, a HUGE number of people do, by the way. So, it is a pretty relevant message. Many people commit more sin on the roads than everywhere else combined.

The Catholic Church does give lots of money to the poor. But they obviously don't give everything they have to the poor... the Catholic Church has no problem with spending lots of $$$ for worship facilities and the related. And there's Bible readings to support that practice. Nor does the Catholic Church tell you not to live in a big house, have expensive cars, etc. They do tell you if you have lots of $$, you ought to be giving some of it to the poor... but they never tell you that you can't enjoy your hard-earned money.

So, I don't really follow your comments above. I'm glad they're saying something about the hideous behavior on the road. I wish they'd have said much more. I'd have said more, given the clout they have. I'd have recommend that governments make extensive drivers' education a part of high school curriculum, complete with the psychology of driving, some ethics, and some autocross time. For many, driving is one of the few life & death responsibilities that they will have... and most are horribly trained in how to drive safely and courteously.

 

This is my thinking.

Until they clean there own house first.....then they can comment....until then they should be the last ones throwing stones at glass houses.

Your comment above you mentioned they do not give everything to the poor,and neither do we.... if they really wanted to stay true to the teachings of JC, they should give away every penny...thats what JC wanted. They need to lead by example.....and its been a VERY VERY long time since they have done that themselves.

I think there are much bigger issues in the world to cover, than giving a statement on cars and its drivers...whats next ? how to not sneeze in public for fear of a world wide flu epidemic

Next

The only reason a statement came out was because they saw many Vespas cutting off the popemobile in Rome...(self promotion and self serving)........do they not have something more important to do ???

 

The vast majority of people on this planet are not going to impact world hunger, diffuse global terrorism, eliminate government injustices, etc. So, you're saying the Vatican should just focus on dealing with world leaders, and should ignore the rest of us?

Please.

The primary mission of most Christian churches, the Catholic Church included, is to bring the gospel message to all the individual people of the world. And if they see them being un-Christian-like in some of their daily activities, they call them on it. That has always been the primary role of the various Christian churches, and really the only thing they do reasonably well.

They have largely just gotten themselves into trouble when they start trying to play the political-power game with the big government rulers... that's an ugly game. History looks much more kindly on what they've done in the small, helping individual people in individual communities.


Whatever... we're digressing WAAYYY outside of the Ferrari-related topic of this thread:

= The Vatican statement does not say anything about owning a Ferrari being a sin.

= The linked "news" article was just sensationalist BS designed to get you to read their $#it.

 

My only issue with it is, that the popemobile got cut off by Vespas, thats the only reason why the article came out. It affected them, therefore they needed to make a statement about it. It seems like a self serving message....this is why i have a problem with it.
I guess we are discussing from to different sides ....which is cool. I just dont agree with it, thats all.

 

Brian,

You and I both know that 99 out of 100 people won't read the document. It's more fun for them to preach about what they "think" it says rather than to get the facts and then discuss the topic intelligently. Pity.

 

How many Papal blessings has Ferrari received in the past few years anyway, not to mention giving the Pope an ENZO and doesn't the Pope usually bless Ferraris once a year. Benny 16 is probably just a Porsche fan anyway.

 

Because 99 out of 100 doesn't read Latin

 

It's available in an English translation, of course.

Here's a link to the document:

http://212.77.1.245/news_services/bulletin/news/20451.php?index=20451&lang=en#V.%20The%20Christian%20virtue%20of%20drivers%20and%20their%20%E2%80%9CTen%20Commandments%E2%80%9D


For anyone who reads it, let us know what you think about it.

 

I only read the 10 guidelines . . . they are simple, honest rules of prudence and courtesy. How anyone on here, Catholic or not, can disagree with that is beyond me.

As a side note, it is saddening to see people bash the entire Church for things a few people did and give no recognition at all to the good and charitable things the Church has done and continues to do throughout the world. Maybe the people commenting are all just posers, who bought their cars to show off and get attention?

 

I might have to agree on this one. While I do not believe that they have to clean thier house first, it might be nice if they would admit they have a dirty house!

JC, as you are calling Him, did not want us to sell off everything and give it to the poor. We are called to be good stewards of what He has given us, and to be generous with our gifts. The only time Christ told someone to sell off everything he owned, was to the man who claimed to have lead a perfect life. As you'll recall, it was the man who said that he had kept all of the Commandments.

Shiny Side Up!
Bill

 

You are correct, you do not need anyone to unite you with God, only God can unite you to Him. You are also correct that you may pray to Him whenever and wherever you feel the need or desire to do so.

However, a good, well balanced church is very helpful for a healthy relationship with God. True, it is VERY hard these days to find said well balanced church, our search has lasted the better part of 6 years! But, they are around. A good church will be more concerned with its members and the Gospel than it will with status, looks, money, or "membership drives." Within such a church there will be much healthy discussion and even a bit of debate. Its finances will be transparent, as will its minister. Such a church will also acknowledge that is falls short on many things, as it is run by men and therefore cannot achieve perfection.

They will also have no issue with you driving your Ferrari to church!

Shiny Side Up!
Bill

 

Actually my friend, the entire teaching of Christ is to give 100% of yourself....so i must disagree with you here...but i really dont want to get into the finite teachings and interpretation of JC.....we'll create another thread for that

My issue with the article was the popemobile got caught off by Vespas, thats the only reaosn why this statement by the church was made. They put the spin on it to have good behaviour...its all in the marketing. Sell the sizzle, and the sizzle is too show respect when on the roads, and not use your ferrari, Jag or anythign else for self promotion...which is funny since they did the exact same thing. I would bet $100 if the popemobile never got cut off in the first place, this article would have never been published.

Sad really.

 

Yes, but if everybody gave away everything, none of us would have anything. Thus, the argument of giving away everything fails the logic test. PM me and we'll continue this, it's fun. =-)

Agree with ya there... The Papacy has definitely shown its arrogance from time to time.

Shiny Side Up!
Bill

 

Hell, I'm still trying to figure out what a siner is.

As for Catholicism is becoming an oxymoron of a dictatorship. I dismiss that statement as tripe.

All religions have guidelines and precepts, but the Pope dosn't equal any type of "dictator."

That was childish. - and I'm not even a thesist anymore.

 

You've repeated that several times now in this thread... each time as if it is fact. Could you please cite your evidence?

Your "issue" seems to be that you made up some reason that the Catholic Church issued the document, and you are taking issue with that reason... that seems to be a personal issue ( just wondering... do you also get worked up about a lot of conspiracy theories?).


How about the whole world sees a lot of people behaving like demons rather than like Christians on the streets of our world and they thought it was about time they called us on it?

 

Hey, that strategy has worked for the church, and da pope himself, so......why not? If something (in this case, the babble) says it's true, it must be true, because it says it's true, so it must be true, because it says........

Circular Logic - keeping the church in power for 2000 years.......

As for what the church says about anything - I don't really care since I escaped the cult. Ethics and humanity transcend sucking-up to another "Aren't I wonderful? Tell me I'm Great and Good or I'll smite you with mah lurv" bully.

 

Are you stoned or what? You did not read the document yourself, correct? So in fact if you did not read the document because you "really don't care" then your opinion here is what's "babble" or "circular logic".

 

What part isn't clear?

Which document? The months-old edict about Ferrari owners possibly being sinners, or the babble?
Got a laugh about the former, the latter was drummed into my head until I regained consciousness.

The Circular Logic? See first question.

My point was that we should care little, if at all, about the opinions of power-hungry hypocrites.

 

Yes or no, did you read the document?

 

I'll have to assume that you mean the much-discussed "Vatican says Ferrari Owners might be evil....." or something to that effect. No, there was little need, considering it's so dependent on interpretation that the general consensus relays the message. I wouldn't exactly have given it much credence, anyway, in case you haven't guessed. I also don't read the "Bridge Hands Digest" column in my local paper, either.
IIRC, it was about the same time that something about "Driver's Ten Commandments" was proclaimed, inescapable unless you ceased reading the papers or watching TV.
I can see it now.......Coming soon - "Vatican's New Revelation - Declares Water Wet"

That there is such consternation here (how many weeks/months after the original story ran?) is quite amusing to me.

Edit - You got me curious, and I followed the links to find..........it's all in the interpretation of those "Ten Commandments". It just gets "Strangerer and strangerer"....all this about....what, exactly?
And yes, I laughed again.

 

Man telling men what to do. They can't send the Crusaders out to do their bidding anymore. Thank goodness I was born in this century.