Can some new oil formulas be harmful ??? | FerrariChat
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Can some new oil formulas be harmful ???

Discussion in 'Technical Q&A' started by docweed, Oct 12, 2007.

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  1. docweed

    docweed Formula Junior

    Dec 8, 2004
    452
    Morgantown,WV
    Full Name:
    Chuck Stewart
    #1 docweed, Oct 12, 2007
    Hate to bring up another oil discussion but if the following is true everyone s/b aware of the potential problem. A friend was told by several oil techs that the current oil formulas may be harmful to older engine because the new oils don't contain zinc. The zinc was removed because it is a pollutant and also damages the cats. Oils that have the zinc removed are classifed as SM where the old oil with zinc was SL. The zinc is supposed to reduce cam wear and if removed can cause severe damage in short time. Now I don't know if there is any truth to this but I'm sure someone out there knows the facts. If true what can be done...any good additives? Thanks
     
  2. wobbs

    wobbs Rookie

    Oct 12, 2007
    4
    #2 wobbs, Oct 12, 2007
    I don't claim to be an expert on this but I have checked AGIP oils and quite a few of their oils are still SL, so presumably they are ok to use. Although I can't beleive that when oil conpanies removed the zinc that they wouldn't have put another additive in to replace the lost lubricating qualities.
     
  3. AEHaas

    AEHaas Formula 3

    May 9, 2003
    1,465
    Osprey, Florida
    Full Name:
    Ali E. Haas
    #3 AEHaas, Oct 12, 2007
    Zinc levels are slightly less in GF 4 SM than GF 3 SL oils as the related compound, phosphorous, has been reduced from 0.10 to 0.08. The upcoming GF 5 protocol will have a further reduction. In those 1 or 2 oils, none available here, that have gone to a formulation without phosphorous, they use newer compounds. These newer oils seem to be just as good or better than oils containing zinc. The only one I know of is a 5W20 oil.

    aehaas
     
  4. docweed

    docweed Formula Junior

    Dec 8, 2004
    452
    Morgantown,WV
    Full Name:
    Chuck Stewart
    #4 docweed, Oct 12, 2007
    Ali
    Thanks for your response. Correct me if my assumption is wrong but even though there is less zinc and phosphorous in the SM oils they are still safe for older motors? Also, the upcoming GF 5 oils are not intended for the US market correct? What are some example companies. Thanks again.
     
  5. AEHaas

    AEHaas Formula 3

    May 9, 2003
    1,465
    Osprey, Florida
    Full Name:
    Ali E. Haas
    #5 AEHaas, Oct 12, 2007
    GF 5 will be for all markets. It has been shown that zinc levels of 0.03 or higher will work. More is not better, just more. Small amounts are consumed so a little extra is good. Many think that zinc is the only anti wear additive. This is not true.

    Newer formulations use different anti wear additives and eventually zinc may be phased out but the oils should be backwards compatible. Currently, SM oils are compatible for all previous API ratings and therefore for all engines regardless of age. These SM oils outperform all older oils and there is NO reason not to use them as a passenger car motor oil.
     
  6. marankie

    marankie Formula Junior

    Aug 30, 2004
    252
    Agoura Hills, Calif
    Full Name:
    Martin
    #6 marankie, Oct 17, 2007
    In the new/latest EPA compliant commercial oil formulations, there is not enough ZDDP (Zinc and Phosphorous) additives to protect the highly loaded cam to follower interface for line interface type motors. This is not a problem with roller followers, but is a problem (accelerated wear) with flat bucket style flowers as found amongst many on 308s. The old oil formulations for the "good ones"- rich ZDDP (for example Castrol GTX 20/50, Mobil 1 15/50) had about 1200 ppm "zinc" and "phosphorous". Now it is down to about 800ppm.

    There is lots of info on various Porsche websites on this, and also www.lnengineering.com/oil.html. who have done a lot of actual oil annalyses amd have puplished these on their web site.

    There are various additives, GM EOS and STP red bottle 4 cylinder oil additive (my approach), that you can add to your crankcase to bring the level of ZDDP up to a safe level for you older car.

    Some of the specialty oil brands, Redline, Royal Purle, Swepco, Amsoil and still be purchased with about 1200 ppm Z and P.
    Martin
     

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