Maybe some places, my dealer charged me $400. Considering how much CF has to be removed just to get to the drain plug, it is not unreasonable. Consider it the price of owning the car I guess.
Don't believe what you read. True, CGT maintenance prices out of warranty will not be cheap, but most owners understand that is the price of owning the beast and will not worry. One factor for the recent price increase in CGT's is the fact that they are now in hands of real enthusiasts who appreciate the car for what it is. Therefore, fewer out there to buy, better pricing. I suspect an enzo engine out service won't exactly be cheap either.
two vids..... no contest.... sound: http://youtube.com/watch?v=muLwmMutDb0&mode=related&search= speed: http://youtube.com/watch?v=PeHWHwRbSE4&mode=related&search=
Not condoning this in any way. These guys are driving like complete *********s!! but given the subject of car control re: the GT please see this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7DVe9oIhic&mode=related&search=
You do me a disservice, I am not a Porsche guy; I am a car guy. And, since I own an F430 (alongside the CGT) I think am qualified to opine on the relative merits. I have seen people kill themselves in the CGT, and could have predicted the outcome based upon attitude and postings. Then you see others pick up on these events and try to capitalize to support their own economic decisions and capabilities (or lack thereof). The place to extract the performance, of each car, is on the track and not on the street or in the canyons, after considerable professional input. Let me change the dynamics of the argument (with a little poetic license) Boxster $50K F430 Spider $250K CGT $450K In relative terms, there is a $200K delta between each car. Is the F430 spider worth $200K more than a boxster? Answer, in the same way as a CGT is worth $200K more than an F430 Spider. This has nothing to do with preference, or bias, for either marque, but the answer is compounded by perceptions of driving abilitiy, desires and rewards. A poseur is more likely to prefer the F430 and a purist is more likely to prefer the CGT. A competent and capable driver will certainly pick the CGT because they understand the law of diminishing returns and the levels of skill required to exact the "extra" performance.. which can only be done on the track. In summary the F430 is a general purpose tool (similar to the Boxster, though emotionally more rewarding) and the CGT is a special purpose tool (scalpel). In the end, you make the rationalization based upon your economic circumstances, emotions and aspirations.
must be cold tires...or maybe a special CGT modified with PASM....no one could control a CGT like that, its not supposed to be possible right ? LOL ! too damn funny....
As many of you know, I'm new to this forum, and a new F430 Spider owner. I've read this entire thread and find it fasinating that so many of you have spent the time discrediting the F430 as compared to the CGT. I find it equally interesting that almost all of you would take the CGT over a F430. So... just for the record, I disagree. I could have bought any car I wanted, and I wanted the F430 Spider. The CGT is an incredible machine, but if it was $100k less than the Spider, I still wouldn't have bought it. I think the Ferrari F430 Spider is the most incredibly beautiful creature on earth, period!!! I can't get the sound out of my head. It's not like me to get involved in this kind of thread, but I'm still a little emotional about my decison to buy whay i think is the ultimate driving machine by far, and I don't mean my M6.
Welcome to F-chat - you will find it to be a valuable source for a variety of experiences and opinions. You need not be at all "defensive" about your 430 Spyder purchase; I for one, think it is an absolutely fabulous car and is certainly my first pick if I want to go on a drive, cruise and with many exceptions, even drive it on the track. On a track however, the only place where one can safely experience wild open throttles for more than a few seconds, threshold brake and rotate a car, and do so with great reliability, the Carrera GT wins hands down. Yes, the clutch takes a bit of time to get used to, yes, the shifter is in a seemingly odd place, and yes, the chassis is much stiffer than most exotics (almost as stiff as a Cup car). It is more work to drive on a track than a Spyder, partiicularly if you don't know how to heel and toe to truly balance the car. The lack of that ability alone can surely accentuate the "widow-maker" noteriety of the car. But..... if you are a proficient track driver (know about weight transfer, balance, have decent car control, and the knowledge and experience when to apply throttle), there are very few cars that are so capable (and fast) right off the dealer's floor. The combination of a very powerful normally aspirated motor, combined with terrific balance and its own very unique sound (not just like "another" Ferrari), makes me crave for slicks or R rated tires for the car (IMHO - the CGT's biggest weakness - tires and tire selection). If however, you are a very occassional track driver, and enjoy cruising to the track as much or more than driving on a track, there are few cars better than the 430 Spyder; the car is very easy to get in, drive fast, control weight balance effortlessly (because the electronics take care of the blipping for you), and look and sound great the entire time. I love my 430 Spyder for all those reasons (and more); however, if I only had 1 car, it would be the CGT without question. Just my $0.02
Colm, I think the above two statements are beautifully put and make your point unequivocally clear. My opinion with regards to the F430 & CGT are the same as your's; as in the statement above. Btw, I didn't know you had an F430 so I assumed you were a 'Porsche guy'.
I was waiting for your appearance on this thread! Since the CGT vs. F430 debate goes back a long time.
Guys, the debate is really simple. As Colm put it, an F430, especially the Spider, is not as much a 'driver's car' as the CGT. End of story. The CGT also requires more dexterity on the part of the driver; unlike most modern road cars. The same can be said of the 996GT2; hence the large number of wrecks and rumors.
Thanks!!...i think Now i have to wait until Tuesday. A little sad saturday for me. Now I am gonna have to look at more pictures of the car.
well said...also, keep in mind there as been several well kinow enzo crashs, the are far fewer enzos out there and even few still being driven...any time you have a true supercar based on a race car, with massive hp and light weight, the potential to get in over your head is there...I drove a friends CGT on two occassions, and it took me about 2 minutes to get used to the clutch and found the handling at 70% to be easy and predicable...and 70% in this car is scary fast on public roads.........btw, the sound of the cgt engine has it revs up is beyond anything i have heard this side of Monaco.....
Let me make it clear that in my opinion the two cars cannot be compared from a performance standpoint. The CGT is probably the finest production performance sport car ever produced. Driving the car sends chills up your back as you experience the prodigious power and handling capabilities. AND YET...there is an undertanding/bargain between you and the car that if you make a mistake, albeit a minor one, it could cost you your life and serious injury. Implicit with CGT ownership is this Faustian bargain. The 430 Spider does not have the performance capabilities of the CGT nor the incredible rush like the CGT when you get it near its limit. Yet when you consider fun factor the 430 when hands down. It has manageable power, incredible sound, dial in stability system to allow the driver to pick his/her setting, phenomenal styling and unbelievable resale value. I agree with Colm that the CGT is a specialize tool and it does require a skilled hand to use it. My preference is a car that is easy to drive fast. I also will readily admit that today I would be an owner of the CGT had the car I was considering buying had a beige interior instead of Black on Black. In retrospect I am happy I did not buy the CGT.
When i think of this debate, these really are two different cars, and two of my all time favorites....but the 430 is more of an everyday car whereas the cgt is more of true race car- supercar...for pure adrenaline rush, the cgt wins easily, but for practicality, the ferrari is easier to get in and out of, easier to drive, easier to control and higher off the ground....if you have means, i highly recommend one of each; for the rest of us, there is an occassional drive of a friends car and you tube..........
Whats your opinion of the price on a CGT, 430 S, GT2 or 3 ten years from now, how about 20 years from now. I see the 430 being at 308 prices and the CGT at 959 prices.
The reason why the CGT price stabilized was because European's bought the overstock in the US. Those that own one generally are holding on to them at least for now. Thus, there is a very small demand with little inventory on the market. The future of the CGT is not bright resale wise. Other than the 959 which had a production of 300 with none for the US, all Porsche's cannot hold their value in the high end market. It is just the way it is.
i hope what you say is true, because i would love to pick up a Cgt at low price in a few years....like sub $200k...but i dont think they will get that low...there are more and more high net worth car enthusiasts in the world and with only 1200 copies made, there will be buyers at well above of this level...but i do hope i am wrong....
the 430 will eventually do what all entry level f cars do, go to about 50% of msrp...of course this can take many years and we are talking 10-15 years perhaps...this would put the 430 spiders at around 120-130k $.....in the next several years, the 430 spiders will probably do a $10-15k drop per year in open market prices..........
You've been proven wrong once regarding future CGT prices (check almost every one of your anti-CGT posts last year on 6speed/rennlist/fchat)....why should anyone put any credence in your punditry this time around ?
