Are educated youth today more lazy or placed with too many demands?

I have to agree with Dom.

Long ago, if you worked for a company, did a decent job and were loyal, there were benefits and loyalty that came back to you. That's no longer the case.

I'm fortunate that I've ended up in a good company, one that does focus on retaining employees and returning loyalty. To get here, though, meant jumping from job to job in my field as contracts were cancelled, companies merged and short-term budget contractions caused mass layoffs.

Companies these days, in all fields, view their non-C*O personnel as liabilities and cost centers, to be thrown off as quickly as possible. Why should people working for them put in that extra effort? There's just no incentive to be at the office on Saturday instead of on the beach.

 

Similar happened to me , years ago, so I quit, and started my own place. Maybe you can too??

 

Seems to be more loyalty, in the smaller businesses, vs the BIG ones. It's more like a family.

 

Ryan,

Here's a good article:

http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/fortune_archive/2007/05/28/100033934/index.htm

 

I'm a IT consultant.

Worked for a large company and worked long hours,traveled week in and week out, was underpaid, and was constantly wading through waters that were infested with political sharks waiting to eat you alive. But people truly are sheep. Most people were thrilled to get a job there and were happy to get small raises and no promotions and hoped that things eventually paid off. Meanwhile, the work piles higher and the work weeks get longer.

People get caught up on wanting to work for the biggest and best companies, and I did just the opposite. I looked for a small firm that rewarded their workers in pay and job security if you could show them a little bit of loyalty in a high turnover industry - and found it. Now I work a normal 40 hour work week, have zero stress, never travel, am paid well, and have a great work environment with little political B.S. - and more opportunities to move up than I could have dreamed of in my old job. This new company loves it's workers and it feels like I'm family, not another social security number.

The perfect jobs are hard to find but they are out there...you just need to remove yourself from the treadmill for a bit and look around.


That's a bit off track. As to the original question: I don't really think it's either. I think the real problem is that the educated youth are impatient and the companies treat their recent graduates like a commodity.

The people I work around think that if they are smart and work their ass off they should move up the ladder quickly. If they don't, they get bored and move on. This instant gratification is a problem and these kids out of college think that they are entitled to make six figures in a few years after they graduated. I think that drive is a key to success but their expectations are often times unrealistic and they have an unrealistic sense of what they are really worth. These kids out of college with zero experience don't know very much and yet think that because they graduated from a good school and got 5 offer letters from top tier companies that they somehow are more valuable than the other 50 kids around them that did the exact same thing. Fact is, they have no experience and haven't proven anything to anybody so why should they get a raise?

Second, companies treat these new graduates like crap. They book their schedules, give them grueling travel schedules, work them ridiculous hours that only someone single and a slight touch of insanity could tolerate, and don't give them decent raises. And are probably quite happy that these people leave after a few years if they are smart, because they can bring someone in at a starting salary and bill them just the same amount as the person before them was. Vicious cycle, but young labor is cheap labor and it drives a lot of these industries. There is no reason to be loyal to a company that really doesn't care if you stick around or leave.

But this bites the company's in the asses. They are always looking for management that have lots of experience and are talents in their field. They could have scores of these individuals if they hadn't burned them out and paid them a little better when they were 3-5 years in. If you stick it out and have some natural talent, you can write a check for any amount and these big companies will beg borrow and steal to get you in the door. Seems silly that they are so eager to get the same people they were treating like crap 10 years ago.

 

IMO youth of today have not had to slug it out and really find out what the world is all about. Parents who had it tough enable them so they think everything should be handed to them. Of course there are the exceptions. OTOH, who can blame them? You think anyone sits on their death bead wishing they had chalked up more billable hours? Maybe they're the smart ones.

 

I would have agree with Dom.

As a "young person" (born in 1977) and the holder of 2 MBA's, I find it hard to find a company that will be loyal to me and treat me right. Ryan has seen my resume, while it's not bad, I do lack long term job history (about 2-3 years at each company).

What I run into from most employers that I have worked for thus far is the "Don't think we cant replace you tomorrow attitude" not to mention its been told to me on several occasions. I am not scared of work or long hours, my involvement in the National Guard sometimes requires me to work 24 hours at a time, so this is a non-issue for me. Most of time there is no progression track at these companies, you take the newly offered job and stay there and maybe you'll get a bonus or yearly raise, what's my motivation to bust my butt?

What I like about the National Guard is that I know there is a natural progression, I get a raise every year, and the steps to the next level are clear-cut and easy to follow if you're motivated. I would love to find a company that I can work for and retire from in 20 years, providing they take of me also. It's a two-way street, if all the company does is pile more and more work ontop of you without any added compensation (compensation can come in the form of extra days off/more vacation, not just money) what should you do? Likewise if I know there is something to reward me for all this added work, then why not stay late seven days a week?

I don't ask for six figures, however I feel that I have made a substancial investment in my education and feel that I should be compensated for that. I know it can take 10-15 years to climb the corporate ladder, however stagnation is also a killer, challenge me, give something substancial to work on, somthing to hold my intrest, perhaps a project in a different department.

To sum it all up - take care of me, I'll take care of you, happy employees=happy company.

-Chris

 

Job hopping has been going on for awhile, no one starts with and stays with an employer for 40 years anymore. They will jump ship for an extra 50 cents an hour, a company car, a work location closer to home, better reputation, more sick time etc, whatever.

 

That has been the case for years. The trap is where you do it often enough and you get a reputation for it. Then you become a pariah. No one will touch you anymore.

 

We should probably also add that the 'it was harder when I was younger' / 'this new guy wants to run the company' syndrome is eternal. Our parents faced it. We face it. Our kids will also face it.

I'll never forget talking with an attending a few years ago who gave rather ironic voice to that syndrome when he told me in consecutive stories a) that he was so tired as a resident that he made a mistake that nearly killed a patient and then b) that new residents weren't working as hard or as long hours as he and his friends did.

We heard similar stories about "Gen X-ers" being terrible in the workforce. We'll hear the same about 'Generations Y and Z'. More likely than not, the reality is that most people in the world always have wanted and always will want to be advanced for little work. The few who really do produce are rare, and always have been.

 

I can't speak for the legal world, but for other professions, this new generation just leaving college is full of entitlement (whether it be perks, or power). Had a 23 year old girl telling me what to do yesterday... on a project that was her first real-world experience, and NOT her place to give me orders. I don't remember having such brass balls when I was 23 & in a new job!!!

While I don't deny this, it truly gets worse with each decade. I'm sure that many moons ago, it was the new slave who didn't want to take his lashings. In the 60's, it was the slightly rebellious youth who wore long hair to the office. But now it has mutated into outright savagery... more than just long hair, or a desire to avoid beatings. It's now an assault on all fronts.

 

I've seen resumes from people that are older than me where they have maybe one or two "stops" that last a couple of years and a handful that are under a year and a handful that are barely over a year.

Jumping ship is a horrible thing to let future employers know.

 

Totally agree. To see it in real perspective, place yourself as the owner of a business where everything you have is invested and you seek a certain employee for a position of trust. Then, the "job hopper" resume comes across your desk. Now, it gives pause!

 

Somewhat of a tangent, I know. But following my divorce, I decided to pick up a second job managing a driving range at nights. I worked there before in high school and know the new owners, so it was a nice way to pick up some extra money while helping the people that gave me my first job. I averaged 75hrs a week between the two jobs for the entire summer, while keeping my strict gym/running schedule. People thought I was crazy, but I kept telling them...this was life. 40hrs/week is a convenience.

I honestly get the feeling sometimes that we are the Romans and don't even realize it. Worse, I see no end to it. Our lives of convenience and comfort have led us very far from the spirit that built this country. Now it seems, many of the kids I went to school with have this expectation to reality ratio that isn't in line with their work ethic. I can't help but to think that Machiavelli was right when he wrote that in order to renew something, you should return it to it's roots. I think that principle could and should be embraced by the youth today. Let's face it, it is highly unlikely that most of us will ever know what it's like to work 12hrs or more in the field 6 or 7 days a week in order to keep the family farm alive. Instead, we will average 40hrs/week, come home to food that, at it's worst, is average, and enjoy our ipods, PC's, Gran Turismo, etc., etc.

 

We were talking about this at the office, but what I think it comes down to, is the new lawyers, who are guys who are into law just for the money factor, after all law school is (subjectively) easier than going to get an M.D., so they go get a law degree, also you have those guys who graduate from undergrad, can't find a decent paying job, and decide to go get a law degree to make some money.

Now you're stuck with all these guys who just are in it for the money, with no passion for the work, how do you convince them to keep billing? On the other hand, there's a lateral here whom we've hired last November or so, he just loves the work, on any given weekend where I come in, he'll be in, we joke about how we both basically live in the office, now I'm sure the hours for him aren't as tough because he truly enjoys what he does, and he'll make the billables every year.

 

Another thing is that today the competitiveness is magnitudes higher than even when I was in high school not too far back (let alone 20+ years ago). From the day kids step into kindergarten, those that show any sort of promise are pushed hard from the start. Honor society, drama club, 2 sports, must get straight As, gotta get that 2300 on the SATs. I've tutored these kinds of kids before: school from 7:30am until 3pm, then sports, then clubs, then they stop by for tutoring from 7pm till 9pm, go home and do homework until 1 am. 7:30am until 1am, 5 days a week from age 12 (what's that come out to... like 3000+ billable per year even counting summer vacation?) After 10 more years of busting their ass to get into a good college and get a degree in a field their counselors and advisors told them would reap large benefits, they get shoved into the corporate world where their reward is a mediocre salary and little motivation to do better. Those that do reach the highest levels of success often have some external force to thank: family connections, being at the right place at the right time, etc. Sure, even the average outcome may be that 1/2 acre McMansion in the 'burbs, a 5er and a Lexus RX for the wifey..... but at what cost? And these new parents will have kids and push them even harder to do well with the hopes that their kids won't face the same fate of mediocrity as they did.

So I guess with regard to the original question, I think recently too much pressure has been put on kids, and these recent graduates are just completely burnt out by age 25 and are tired of jumping through hoops with the promise that something bigger and better is just around the corner.

 

I think another part is the high cost of student loans and cost of living.