2 Major Services in 3 months?

While I sympathize with your predicament, I also try to see it from the dealers viewpoint as to where a major service ends. If it is not a mandatory replacement, not leaking, and you do not specify it are the dealers supposed to do the extra work? I do not have an answer for you, but at some point we as owners need to be very specific when buying or have a car serviced. For example, is changing belts enough or should the tension bearings be changed also, maybe the tensioners while we are at it? I guess we should learn from you and specifiy do all requirements and all recommendations!
Good luck azdrmng, dealers do not want a bad rep so you may be able to work out a deel with them. They also do not want to take anyone to court for libel, so be careful as to what you write in a public forum.

 

dealers are all kak's unfortunately

 

There isnt any way anyone can pass this off, its hack work. I bet they didnt degree wheel the motor, check the valve clearance, or half the other stuff they got payed to do. In fact, if all they done was replace the timing belts, they may have done it without even pulling the cam covers. Did they even put on new tensioners? Someone working fast could have it done in well under 2 hours. Kaaaching kaaaching. Just out of curiousity, what did these jokers charge for this crappy full major service???

Sorry man, but I think you got really ripped off. With the covers and belts off, the seals are maybe an extra 30 minutes labor. Cant believe they didnt do it, cant believe they didnt recommend it.

 

When my Ferrari mechanic does the major he changes the cam seals to avoid this type of problem. I also have him review the car if anything else needs to be replaced. He's an honest mechanic and doesn't change anything that doesn't need to be changed. It's important to find a mechanic that you can trust.

 

Unfortunatly, not all dealer or independent "major services" are the same. Along with looking for a good price, you must also be clear on what is being done.

It`s a shame, a few places do this type of work and pass it off as a major service when they are basiclly just changing the belts.


Best Regards, Jim

 

You should list the dealer's name !!!!! See what they think about that !!!

 

B.S. The dealer lists for "major service" on just about every single car includes the cam seals and cam o-rings. More importantly, on the 4-valve 3x8, it absolutely does.

Your seller pulled the RR wheel and slapped new belts/bearings onto the car and claimed it was a major. If they simply advertised "fresh belts and bearings", it would have been more accurate (albeit highly deceptive).

 

Caveat emptor on any "just serviced" notice on a car for sale. Unless you have detailed (and dated) service records listing all items completed, the term "just serviced" could mean that it had an oil change three years ago.

When buying used, I prefer to rely on my own mechanic -- take the price of a service off the purchase price.

 

Clearly, you are better off having dealer "B" do a major, the sooner the better, as nothing dealer "A" supposedly did can be trusted.

Your recourse is to name both dealers here so that "A" can be avoided and "B" can benefit - as well as all of us - by hopefully what will be an attentive and thorough major service.

One more thought, use small claims court, and show up with the listing from numerous web sites and dealers of what the major service is supposed to include. Even if you loose, it's worth it just to hassle dealer "A". And if they don't show, the judgment is automatic in your favor. If they do show, the basis of your logic to the judge, in addition to showing that other shops include the cam seals as part of the job, will be to pose the question "how come the initial major done by dealer "A" didn't include the cam seals but yet the one they want me to pay for does"?

My $.02,
Phil

 

I hate to say it, but Dealer A can easily get out of this in court.

All he has to do is show the owners manual to your car, and all of the services recommended. Last I checked, the manual doesn't mention anything about changing seals, just "checking" various things.

I think you got shorted, and a reputable dealer would address this at their cost. But there is a difference between me believing you got screwed, and you proving it in court.

What did you pay for the major? Or was it negotiated in the purchase price? What does your reciept/sales paperwork show? Thats really all that matters...

 

Viewpoint #1.....

Viewpoint #2.....

This is of course leaving to one side the question as to what half-arse mechanic would even consider putting the thing back together with the old seals.....

Let the debate begin! [Continue?.....]

Cheers,
Ian

 

I disagree. The major service specifically speaks of adjusting valves, removing cam covers and replacing the "gasket". Look up the definition of gasket, its anything that "seals, something. Changing the paper gasket while leaving the neoprene one in place is cutting corners, and any Judge worth his salt will see right through this BS. In fact, the cam cover gasket is in three pieces, so one could easily concur that the word gasket means plural. In other words, the "gasket" is a multiple element matrix designed to "seal" in the oil, and "seal" out water and air, etc.. An o-ring is often refered to as a gasket. The seal on an oil filter is often refered to as a gasket. My God, hillbilly lawyer Clinton could get through this with a simple "it depends on what your definition of the word "gasket" is. Tell ya what. Call any parts place in the world and ask for all the parts required to change belts and check the valves on a 308. I bet you there isnt one who doesnt include cam seals as part of the package. Not one. In fact, call the dealer that did the work, and ask for the parts dept. Ask them to pull all the parts together for a full major engine service. Tell them youll be down to pick up the parts. When you get there, ask the service manager to walk over to the parts dept, and look over your parts they pulled. How much ya wanna bet they put oil seals in the package? Well, probably ZERO as they are probably on Fchat watching. And if you are, your RIPOFFS! Fix the mans car properly for Gods sake.

 

From yourdictionary.com:

gas·ket (gas′kit)

noun

1.) a piece or ring of rubber, metal, paper, etc. placed at a joint to make it leakproof

2.) Naut. a length of rope or canvas for securing a furled sail to a yard or boom

From Merriam Webster:

Main Entry: gas·ket
Pronunciation: \ˈgas-kət\
Function: noun
Etymology: perhaps modification of French garcette
Date: circa 1889
: a material (as rubber) or a part (as an O-ring) used to make a joint fluid-tight

From dictionary.net:

Gasket \Gas"ket\, n. [Cf. F. garcette, It. gaschetta, Sp. cajeta caburn, garceta reef point.]

1. (Naut.) A line or band used to lash a furled sail securely. Sea gaskets are common lines; harbor gaskets are plaited and decorated lines or bands. Called also casket.

2. (Mech.)
(a) The plaited hemp used for packing a piston, as of the steam engine and its pumps.
(b) Any ring or washer of packing.


From world web dictionary and thesaurus:

Noun: gasket gaskit
Seal consisting of a ring for packing pistons or sealing a pipe joint
Derived forms: gaskets

Type of: seal

Encyclopedia: Gasket

From answers.com:

gas·ket (găs'kĭt)
n.
Any of a wide variety of seals or packings used between matched machine parts or around pipe joints to prevent the escape of a gas or fluid.
Nautical. A cord or canvas strap used to secure a furled sail to a yard boom or gaff.

I wouldnt want to walk into court trying to claim an oil seal isnt a gasket. Sorry, but dealer "A" should just take the car back and fix it correctly and stop trying to pull BS like this.

 

good for you! and hats off to them for stepping up and taking care of you. from what you have said i do not think you are asking too much of them. many of us here watch these threads and base our future dealings with dealers on how they treat others. please keep us posted.

 

+1

I guess dealer A could insist on you returning the car to them for the work?

But, it sounds as if they're going to reimburse dealer B - Very good for them!

Hope it all works out,
Cheers,
Ian

 

I dont know how Ferrari dealerships operate, but dealer B may not be real enthusiastic having to act as go between with you and dealer A. I wouldnt want anyone working on my car who was any less enthusiastic than Guido in the Cars movie. If its just a ho hum job your only going to get ho hum service, which you have already had. I would rather dealer A compensate me directly and I'll make my own deals elsewhere thank you. I guess we wont ever know who dealer A is now.

 

I would always supply all the parts to my Lotus guy back when I had a mechanic, and would get the old parts back when I picked up the car. I had issues with him but at least I know he did what I expected. Can one show up at a Ferrari mechanic's place with an arm load of parts, or will they resent not getting the mark-up from themselves selling you the parts?

Ken

 

I understand your thought process, but ponder this...
When you go to a restaurant, do you bring your own food?

Here's a differnet way to look at supplying your own parts: If there's premature part failure, are you going to pay the labor to replace it?

Back to our regularly scheduled program....

David

 

Can you do Cam Seals/cover gaskets with the engine in the car? or is that engine out, too?

 

If I had a client in a similar dilemma, I would suggest that he send dealer A a certified letter advising that if it did not agree to redo the work including replacing the cam seal within 10 days that you will have the work done elsewhere and look to them to reimburse you. I would point out in the letter any and all reference material such as OM, service manual, dealer A advertising, ect... that establishes that a "major service" includes cam seal replacement. If dealer A does not so agree in said 10 days, have dealer B do the work and then send the bill via certified mail to dealer B demanding reimbursement within 10 days. If your are not reimbursed in that time frame, file a lawsuit in Magistrate/Small Claims Court or whatever your state calls it for your repair costs. You will need to have the mechanic that did the work at dealer B appear with you in court as your expert...you should note that you cannot testify as what is required in a major service unless you are in fact a Ferrari service expert. I suspect that dealer A will pay once you get them served. Good luck