Is marriage worth it, financially? (for men only)

No, it just means they can't find the original paperwork.
I'd bet it's there, somewhere.

 

And how do I go about getting this information from her? She doesn't talk to me about ANY problems I/her/we may have or have had in the past, EVER!

This is the whole problem to begin with. Her inability to tell me where she stands with ANYTHING/EVERYTHING. Every time I'd ask her what the matter was (I almost always could tell if something was bugging her), her answer was always the same, "Nothing". (I knew better, but couldn't force it out of her)

 

Nonesence. If she hase moved on to another man you KNOW her perspective. Heck, even if she came back you could and never will trust here agian.

 

I think that the family law court may provide that information. I think that you can apply for the counseling option, and it's mandatory. You'll be able to get her issues in that regard. I don't do family law, but I do recall that counsel is a mandatory option.

Art

 

Unfortunately, I agree. There's nothing that I did to warrent this behavior from her. There's nothing any person can do to excuse away infidility. If you're not happy, or you think the other person is being unfaithful, then you move on. You don't wait until you have someone to latch on to before deciding to end it. That's a big fat excuse to try and justify your prowness personality.

How could I ever trust this woman again? I couldn't.

I've known people who have taken their spouses back after something like this and it's sad to watch them become half the person they once were.

If I had done something to (supposedly) deserve this, I think I would have a pretty good idea of what that might have been. But here, I'm clueless.

A side note to this: My mother-in-laws ex husband left her for another woman when my wife was 2 years old. That's 44 years ago. She has never re-married, or even dated for those last 44 years. She raised 2 children virtually aslone. (God bless her for that) Yet when confronted to the possibility that her daughter has been sleeping with somenoe else, she tells me that it's my fault. I asked her what she did 44 years ago to her husband to make him sleep around, and she said she did nothing to deserve it. I asked her then what I had done to deserve it? She then referred back to "you did blah, blah, blah, blah, blah....". This is why she has both her kids living back with her. (my 48 year old brother-in-law moved back into her home a few months ago after getting married and doing exactly what his father did.)



Time to go to do some praying with the big guy..........

 

Really?

 

I'd check with a family law attorney to be sure, but my memory tells me that this is an option. I don't practice in that area, but every once in a while, I have to take a look at that area, and this is something that I recall from a few years back. Law could have changed, but I don't think so. Check it out.

Art

 

Rivee, your mother-in-law could be a good person or not - we really don't know. But something we can be virtually assured of is this: your soon to be ex-wife has probably spun quite a tale to her mother to gain acceptance and support of her position to leave you. Your mother-in-law is doing what a parent does: protect their child. Don't take this to heart. It's not a reflection of you, but rather the fact that your wife has been feeding information (whether truthful or not) to her mother or an unspecified amount of time.

The above-mentioned approach of mandatory counseling is a good idea IMO. I'm not an attorney, but I would think that the counseling sessions are a good way to determine what the grounds are for her divorce filing and, since it's court mandated, the discoveries made would be admissible in court.

Bob

 

Bob, I have always respected my mother-in-law for what she had to go through to raise 2 kids virtually alone. She's worked hard to support the 2 of them. For this I have the utmost respect for her
But it doesn't excuse the disbelief of the facts when presented to her, no matter what was told to her by her daughter. I think her being this biased has lead to her kids being the way they are, and is why her two adult (at least in age) children are both back at home. She has babied both of them to the point where they've never had to be held accountable for their actions ie: tell the truth.

I could say and do anything to prove that I'm not lying, but she just won't look any further.

I remember a few years ago I had called her up after a fight with my wife, and asked her what she did when she caught her daughter lying to her when she was young. Her response to me? " Well John, she never lied" Right there I should have packed it in and sent her off to mommy.

This is what looking at a situation unobjectively can do . Sure, give your kids the benefit of the doubt, but don't excuse away the blatent lying as she has done here.

 

Yep, never getting married.

 

Yeah, relationships are difficult. I think the key is to find someone you can live with and also someone who you can talk to and someone who you are able to sort problems out with. Usually what causes relationships to end is lack of communication and problem solving - or people just grow apart and decide life is short and they want something/someone else.

For me, I think if you go into a relationship with the attitude that you'll stay together as long as you are both happy, but if something changes and someone is unhappy - and you can't resolve the issues - then it's okay if you part as friends, then it takes a lot of the pressure off being together. As they say in business, "you can't put a fence around your customers" and that's very true in relationships as well.

My gf recently moved out because she was unhappy, but then once she was gone, we both realized we were more unhappy apart. I think breaking up was good in the long run, since it brought the issues in our relationship to the surface and allowed us both to decide it was worth working out our problems. You just never know what twists and turns life will throw at you, but one thing is to always be as nice as possible in the process - at least that's my view (unless you live in texas, then yes, kill them both

On the subject of marriage, I personally don't believe in it. It's silly and in CA it's dangerous if you have any designs on keeping the net worth you have achieved over your life time. I for one don't need the state to sanction my relationship with someone, nor does a piece of paper keep anyone together. My view is that it's largely a bunch of church nonsense and since I'm not religious, I have no need or desire to be "married" to anyone. Not that I have anything against being with just one person or having kids, etc.

When it comes to relationships, I always make it clear right up front that I don't believe in the whole idea - and furthermore that I never would get married. That way, if anyone has any interest in anything but just the nice guy that I am and the wonderful boyfriend that I make (hehe), then they can exit left and not waste their time or mine.

With the divorce rate at (or above) 50%, getting married in CA is effectively like betting half your net worth on the flip of a coin. Heads you don't win anything, tails you lose 1/2. That's not a bet any intelligent person would make.

Go into relationships with your head and your heart, not just your heart.

Ray

 

YUP

relationships are more difficult than working on UFO's

 

If cheating is the new norm yall might as well discuss sex with other partners in person, what happened to good communication?

 

I think men get married for the woman. At least in my case, I think I try and please a women too much. I probably will never be able to change that aspect of my personality, it's just me.

But you can be sure of one thing though, I'll do a better job of protecting what's MINE to begin with and not let some greedy cuunt take me for a ride. AGAIN.

I now really feel that this woman I was married to for almost 14 years, had a master plan in place when she decided to marry me. Why else wouldn't she want to communicate with me now about what she wants or expects in our upcoming divorce court date settlement? Because she can't look me straight in the eyes without knowing that I know exactly what a phony liar she really is. It's called "The Big Con Job". And in my case it's called "The Big Trust".

Guess I just thought THIS woman wouldn't ever do this to me.

Funny thing is we had talked plenty about what a terrible thing it is to do, to cheat on somebody, like my wife in 1989 did to me. What a bunch of phony bull$hit she was feeding me for all these years.

 

Hey!!!

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,306401,00.html


You should SUE HIM!!!!!!

 

I think a fundamental question might be; why does someone cheat?"

Do they really wake up one morning and think "you know, I feel like gettin' laid by someone different today, think I'll pick someone up on the way to work." If that's what happens, then there is a morality issue, and as morality is bunk in today's world, marriage is also bunk so you better hide all your assets and rent.

Infidelity happens for a variety of reasons, most of which are a symptom of something missing in the primary relationship. Note however that this does NOT place the blame on the non-cheating partner! First off, if marriage is a reasonable moral construct, both partners are to be responsible to the marriage. This means that, if I find myself undeniably attracted to another woman, I need to tell my wife about it so that we can try to figure out what the problem is. Not so oddly, the simple act of getting this out in the open can have the effect of removing the temptation because there is no longer the allure of a "secret relationship." Better yet, if both spouses are understanding (and if they aren't, we've already stumbled upon a serious problem) they can now search out and discuss the real issue that might have lead to a break up, long before the situation is terminal.

In many cases, there is a self-esteem issue in the cheating partner. This issue is compounded by the fact that self-esteem is just about worthless these days, having been given at no charge to a child simply because he happened to wake up on the morning that self-esteem was being handed out in school. Worse yet, the spouse with this issue will feel a lack of self-respect (a highly underrated commodity in today’s society) which can help push them towards the infidelity act. Obviously, in these cases, serious counseling of both the cheating partner and the couple are necessary.

If addressed properly, infidelity can actually lead to a better marriage. Though I am in no way suggesting anyone should run out and shack-up so they can make their marriage better! I once met a man (my father restored his '57 Chevy) who told us how his affair lead to the best time in his marriage. This of course followed the worst time in his life! He said that the discovery of his affair forced him and his wife to address the issues that lead to the affair. Doing so caused them both to grow quite a bit, leading to a much better relationship.

Again, in the end it all depends on both partner view of marriage. If you think it's just a contract, then cheating is an easy way to force the termination of said contract thus alleviating the necessity of actually discussing any real issues. If you believe that it is a binding, un-terminable relationship, you will do everything necessary to keep it alive. I am not placing blame on anyone in any situation posted in this thread, it takes two to tango, and I do not know any details as presented by the "other side," nor do I know all of the details as known by the posters. I do know however, that there has to be an unshakable, undeniable, belief that a marriage is un-dissolvable union that must be nurtured, fed, and protected at all costs by both partners in order for it to work. The men and women of "the greatest generation" knew this and their marriages lasted better than any subsequent generation's. Maybe we need to look a little more at the ways in which they ran their lives.

On another note, I have seen much discussion of ways to protect "your" assets. "that's yours; this is mine" is another word for divorce court. If either partner goes into a marriage with this notion, they might as well give it up. It will not last; it can't. Envy and jealousy will seep into that marriage like MTBE into a well and poison it. Besides, how do you really apply this notion? It's like those households that "split" everything. I know of a couple who splits everything according to the percentage of the total income they each bring to the bargain. How in the hell is this going to work? It can't! What if one of them looses their job? Do they evict the other until such time as the unemployed partner can make up the back portion of their part? What if something happens where one partner can no longer contribute in any large portion?

Everything I had became equally my wife's the day we were married, including any outstanding debts, as did everything she had. My cars became our cars. Her bank account became our bank account. In fact, my body became ours, as did hers. Everything she or I "have" is really ours, and we both fully believe it. She fully supports my car "habit" though she really doesn't understand it beyond the idea that it's a "guy thing." She needs daily doses of affection, on average the number one need of a woman, and I need daily doses of appreciation (on average the number one need of a man) in order for each of us to feel fulfilled. We both believe that doing these things is our primary responsibility in life. Like I said before, marriage is a belief, and if you don't believe, it will not work.

Anyway, I hope I haven't offended anyone here, and if I did I absolutely didn't mean to. If you disagree with anything I’ve said, please let me know. I actually enjoy these sorts of discussions!

Shiny Side up!
Bill

 

Bill, if a man like rivee believes that everything is going good in his relationship with his wife and he's off to work every day thinking he's doing the right thing by letting her be the stay-at-home wife (not having to work), then out of whatever reason she decided to cheat on him, how is this his fault? if she never devulges she has a problem with ANYTHING her husband is doing, as seems to be the case with rivee, then what has HE done wrong?

 

Agree...it seems that rivee asked his wife throughout their relationship if she was happy. She chose to not communicate by giving a "fine" answer. Communication is the only thing that will make a relationship last long term.

 

Nothing. He said that at the top of the posting. A person cheating is not neccessarily the fault of the non cheating spouse. Sounds like Rivee's wife chose not to be communicative (or doesn't have the capacity for it). As aggravating as the whole ordeal is, the good news is that it will be over at some point. You have your health, your future, and your abilities. That enough to get you back on the road to where you belong. As my dad always used to say "Don't worry, it will all work out." And karma will get her one day also.
BT

 

based on my life experiences...I'm 48, was married at age 31, divorced at 34 (ended horribly) and single since - although I have had two 3 year relationships that went sour. My opinion - marriage is a messed up institution. I have felt strongly since my divorce about two women, but understanding marriage - I would NEVER marry either one. Takes a woman I really doubt exists for me? Single is good! Freedom is good! Women are abundant for animal desires...DONT MARRY!

 

First, I would like to thank all who responded to my posts in this thread. Without your thoughtful input, I wouldn't have enough of an information database to process to form an idea about marriage. Again, I THANK ALL OF YOU.

Second, I've come to some educated conclusions about why or why shouldn't a man get married:

1) If you want children, I believe marriage between a man and a woman is the stable for all children being raised, in other words, the "FAMILY".

2) If you don't want children, then why do it? Because society dictates it? Because of pressure from friends and family? Pressure from her?. To all these I say "BULL ****. You don't have to get married to have a loving relationship, or to have great sex. Hell, I had better and more frequent sex before I was married. Although I did enjoy (although infrequent) sex with my wife as well.

3) If you just can't stand the fact that everyone around you says you should get married and you succumb to these whims, then by all means "PROTECT" yourself from the ravages of divorce, by having pre-nups or other means of protecting your ASSets. It's not a pretty picture watching someone like me scramble to hang on to his hard earned life's assets. I'm not in the best mindset right now, not only because I was devastated deceived by my so-called life partner, but to add insult to injury, I believe she is going to punish me for "her" actions by trying to take away something I have worked 30+ years to achieve, my financial freedom.

Why is it that when confronted with infidelity by your significant other, they turn it around and treat you like you are the second coming of the Antichrist? Or they say stuff like "you're a loser" even though until you caught them cheating, you had furnished them with everything you thought they ever wanted, made it so they didn't have to work to help support the household, move them into a beautiful home in the country, give her a Ferrari to drive around in, and give them the security every woman desires.

I'll never understand it.

Well, back to work I go to pay for my (I have no choice) "over priced" attorney

 

In my opinion, you pretty much have to be crazy or brainwashed by society to get married these days. Sure, in 1940 or 1950, maybe it made some sense and that's how things functioned best back then, but in this day and age, it's just an open invitation for problems when someone wakes up and decides they are no longer happy and/or that the grass is greener on the other side, etc.

If you are both poor and have nothing else going in your life, then it doesn't matter and maybe you believe that somehow being married will magically make your life and/or relationship better. But if one person has more wealth accumulated and/or has any designs on making money in the future, then it's generally amounts to a one sided bet with only downside as the risks if something goes wrong. In CA, it's effectively a legal partnership and the courts treat it as such. You might as well wake up one morning and sign over half your business to your girlfriend, and your house, and your car.

Ray

 

Next time find a woman that actually loves sex as much as you do, not one that is just tolerating it. My dad has been married almost 50 years and still has sex 4 times a week. He's 81.

I use that as my bench mark. If I find myself in a relationship where my 81 year old father is getting more ass than I am, then I know something in my relationship has gone very wrong!

lol

Ray

 

Note that I did not say that it was all his (or anyone's) fault. If he was doing something wrong, or not doing something that he should have been, it is equally or even more her fault for not letting him know. That's why I pointed out that, if one partner felt attracted to someone other than the other partner, they should let them know so that anything that might be sorted can

In the case of rivee, of which I know nearly nothing, it is obvious that it is well beyond the stage of his doing anything wrong. If he did, it doesn't matter as she has seeming decided to use a new found "hatred" of, or anger towards, him to justify her position and actions. This gets back to my original post about all problems stemming from selfishness. After all, if she weren't being selfish, she would have come to him, be it before or after the infidelity, confessed, and made amends. She didn't because, as far as I can tell with the limited information available, she was only concerned about "what was right for her."

When any relationship is every man for himself (or woman), there is no "relationship."

Shiny Side Up!
Bill

 

absolutely. but how is it equally rivees fault "if he was doing something wrong, or not doing something that he should have been" if he didn't know he should/shouldn't have been doing whatever her beef was/is (within a moral sense) to begin with?

can't say for sure but i don't think rivee's the reincarnation of Houdini.