Beware Kinesis Wheels! Look at this!

Who painted the wheels?

 

Are you George from Lexani? Blank profiles are questionable.

 

I crossed posted this to the Golf R32 forums at VWVortex.com. This subject of painting Kinesis wheels has arisen there before, and one of the posts prompted this question. "If I could make a guess, I'd say that the wheels were probably powdercoated. The high temps during the baking process for the coating is what may have had an adverse affect on the alloy's structural integrity. "

In fact, many others go on to say that the pre-Lexani Kinesis website strongly forbid powdercoating/painting unless the process was a strict process that they approved.

So....the question is a valid one....who and by what process were the wheels painted?

 

Wow, glad u are ok. That is scarry.

 

Thanks for saving me the headache....that company is off my list.

Glad your ok mate !!

 

nope.. I am George from GET Entertainment, the owner of DUBWARS Car Show. I also rock Kinesis on my R32


When I picked up my centers unfinished to go get painted, I was given the lecture and extensive paperwork on how the wheels were to be painted to avoid failure. So, when I saw the wheel on Vortex, I knew exactly what happened. :-(

For the record.. I think the people over at Lexani/Kinesis sux big time.

 

Kind of a bad idea to powder coat (or chrome plate) any critical parts on a race-type vehicle. Besides the unpredictable effects the process can have on the part it can hide cracks until they grow quite large.

 

Yes,

I refinish wheels in Paint, for this reason..

(PPG)

 

Thank you for coming over and posting the info.

Can you post the paperwork from Kinesis?

 

Sad to hear on the Kinesis warranty. If they wanted to retain a customer and pick up a few more (instead of having them drop off) they'd honor it. Years ago, I dealt with Alan at Kinesis on many occasions. He was very knowledgeable and easy to work with. So sad... they picked up the name, but couldn't hold up to the reputation.

 

Am I missing something here? The wheel failed Kinesis refused to replace the wheel w/o even looking at the wheel but in the end any warranty would have be voided because the wheels were powder coated and this is most likely what caused the failure. Kinesis was "correct" in refusing to honor a warranty only they did not realize it at the time.

 

I was reading it as being raced/tracked and voided warranty. I suppose I was missing something.

Powdercoating does weaken the wheel, but to what degree I'm unsure. All I know is I've seen a handful of wheels with similar symptoms at the track and they were all powder coated.

 

Can you ANODIZE with out concern? Fikse anodizes their wheels.

Anyway... I'd never race a car with billet wheels.

Lucas.

 

You wouldn't necessarily use chrome(I've seen it used back in the 60's,70's,80's), but some parts are coated using powder coat and similar products which are heat cured.

What are the UNPREDICTABLE effects of powder coating? It is a top coat and does not react with or change the physical properites of the underlying alloy.

Depending on the mfg of the coating material, curing times for the auto industry vary from 5min to 1-2 hrs, and temps can range from a low of 176F to approx 435F. Would anyone like to take a guess of what tire temps get up to? now how about the brake hats? Now that you've done the temps' how much of that heat is transferred to the wheel?

I most definitely will state that any painted or powder coated part will have a tendancy to retain heat.

Forged T6-6061 AL alloy is nice to work with and has some great physical properties. Guess welding it doesn't exceed 435F...lol

Usually a wheel mfg is concerned with corrsoion/oxidation........both aluminum and magnesuim can and will oxidize/corrode under the coatings, IF they are not meticulously prepped and sealed. This changes the physical properties where it occurs, and can thereby weaken an otherwise strong alloy.

I will need alot more technical information concerning the statements that powder coating cured at 435F will cause the alloy to become brittle/weaken before I accept as fact.

 

I thought this was the reason to avoid Highline chinese wheels. Possible product failure and poor customer service. Looks like you are better off saving the $4k per set to get the same result.

BT

 

I too am glad you are ok. As you know this could have been tragic.

A company should stand behind their product. Even if they said "I'm sorry these were powder coated and that voids the warranty" at least you would have been informed and not felt alienated and frustrated.

I will be in the market for new wheels and I am leaning Novitec Rossa (painted).

Best,
dsd

 

Bill, that's pretty funny...lol

 

While it is possible that the heat curing during powder coating may affect the heat treatment of the alloy (don't know for sure) the main issue that I am aware of is the thickness and flexibility of the coating will hide cracks and make inspections difficult.

Some materials can be adversely affected by media blasting (typically done before powder coating).

Chrome plating is known to cause embrittlement in some metals.

 

YES, paint and powder coatings can and do conceal damage.....IRL rule changes mandate the application of Keronite, which is a coating that can be crack tested(lol) without removal. Powder/paint coatings are prohibited NOT because they effect the underlying alloy...it is simply because it hides damage that could lead to catastrohpic failure.

I agree, some forms of media blasting can effect the alloy.....aluminum and magnesium(especially if they have any age) are/should be, chemically etched.

As stated, I need some pretty detailed technical data to convince me that 300-400F can change the molecular structure of this forged alloy enough to cause the failure on Bruce's car.

I have a call into one of the Alcoa engineers concerning this matter.

 

Kinesis must love this thread over 3000 views!

Anyway, it is pretty simple you find out what the alloy is and then see if the PC heat will effect it. There is all kinds of claims on this all over the web. Basically science wins regardless of how hard people beat their chests. From my simple understanding of PC and metalurgy I think it a real stretch that PC caused the damage. To me the wheels look OEM. Who knows if they were ever painted? These were used wheels.

 

To follow up on your comment, those instances with broken wheels were not HRE wheels. This was posted on an Audi forum back in 2005. These were a COPY of our wheels with an HRE Cap.

 

First of all hello to all that I talked to, helped or know from my days at Kinesis. I am now at Wheel Enhancement, a company that specializes in wheels for Porsches. I can still help you with your wheel needs. Regarding the wheels in the picture, they are the earlier style K57 wheels that used the 18" rim parts with the deep step in the rim. The 18" wheels that used the 17" wheel centers were discontinued about 5 years ago.
There are a couple issues with powdercoating wheels that were not designed to be powdercoated. One is the stripping process. If a hot strip process is used the temper of the metal is reduced about 50%. The second issue is the powdercoating process itself. Typically the tepmerature used is 425 degrees sustained for 30 to 40 minutes. This can reduce the temper by 15% or more.
Racing will always find the weak link.
I think I had a point when I started this but I think it is just information than anything. Please call or e-mail if I can provide any insight.

Alan Baylis
Wheel Enhancement
[email protected]
(310) 836-8908

 

Alan,

First Bruce was not racing nor was he at race speeds. At best lets say hot canyon carving speeds. There are many aluminum alloys and many magnisium alloys used in wheel manufacture with varying properties when heat is applied. Many wheel alloys are just fine with the heat. Can you give us some guidelines as to what alloys to look for which can take the heat? Also, can you tell us current thinking on proper preparation of our magnesium OEM wheels for new paint? I.E wet/dry media blasting? acid dipping etc...?