Fact is, Webber has failed to impress with every drive he's ever had. He was soundly beaten by Coulthard this year. This is the same Coulthart who was released by McLaren a few years ago for being over the hill and not fast enough. And that's the guy that handed Webber his ass this year. Thats one fact. Another fact would be that there are multiple team managers on the grid that have all had 5 years now to observe Mark Webber and none of said managers at the top teams are apparently interested in him. It's not that he's never had a good drive, because others (like Alonso) were at crap teams too and they managed to impress and work that into a better drive. And it's not that he's done so much better than his highly talented teammates either... who has Webber driven again? Yoong and I don't think we even need to say more about that. Davidson he only raced against as a teammate twice. Wilson at Jaguar - and how good a driver was Wilson? He didn't beat Klein by much and how bad was Klein? He was pretty well tied with Heidfeld at Williams in 05, did a little better than the rookie Rosberg in 06, and got whipped soundly by Coulthard in 07. And he's worthy to be in arguably the fastest car on the grid? Above others who have shown more talent and aptitude? No way!
Please make the case that Coulthard "handed Webber his ass". A 4-point advantage? Please. Webber lost double that when he got taken out by Vettel in China. If he finished in 2nd that would have been a 9 point swing in Webber's favor (18 vs. 13). In races they both finished, Webber finished ahead 3 of the 4 times. Yeah. Coulthard really dominated him. Never mind he got dominated 17 vs 2 in head to qualy results (don't even mention average qualy position). The sad thing is you made the case for me. He dominated "future WDC" Rosberg & competed very well with Heidfeld. He crushed all the lesser names you mentioned Yoong, Davidson, Pizzonia, Wilson, Klien. I don't claim that Webber is an F1 god, just as good as Heidfeld. Lets not forget that Heidfeld, over a season, has beaten Kimi in an F1 car.
This has been put forward as fact several times lately and I don't believe it. EVERY driver on pit lane thinks that they could have done what LH has done IF they were given such a car and team in their rookie year. They just were not as lucky as LH to be the Chosen One. EVERY driver would jump at a chance to be in a McLaren next year (since seats at Ferrari are full) - esp since McL's policy is to support the faster driver, no matter who it is. ANY experienced driver in F1 who does not have the confidence that he can out-race a rookie (even as good as LH) in equal machines does not deserve.... no, scratch that... would not have even made into an F1 race seat. IMHO
Well said. Except for the Ferrari teammates and Alonso, there is no other driver on the grid that would turn down a seat at McLaren. Unless of course a report comes out soon from the FIA that would eliminate Mclaren from the WDC and the WCC. And that isn't going to happen as it would affect revenue, and Mr. Eccelstone will not allow this.
As One Door Closes... Saturday 3rd November 2007 Fernando's departure from McLaren at the end of the 2007 season isn't going to be the biggest surprise to anyone in the world of motorsport and public relations. The two-time World Champion has distinguished himself over the course of the season by repeating that he wasn't "comfortable" at the team, as though comfort was what really mattered when you went racing. Some of the ghosts of F1 past may well have been muttering that the most important thing is to have the fastest car. What we got to learn over 17 grands prix was the thing Fernando was least "comfortable" about was the fact that his team-mate got exactly the same car as he did and despite being gifted the Monaco Grand Prix after the McLaren team switched round Hamilton's pit-stops to keep him at bay, that was not enough. Basically what Alonso was asking for was to be gifted the 2007 World Championship because of the status he had already earned at Renault. Alonso is clearly a driver who is perennially unhappy with his lot, because he was already a confirmed World Champion with Renault when he secretly approached Ron about a drive at the end of the 2005 season. Things must have surely reached a low ebb under Flavio Briatore that in the euphoria of winning your first ever World Championship - the youngest driver ever to achieve this feat - you negotiate a move to another team. Drivers coming into a new team often need time to find their feet and it was the same with Raikkonen at Ferrari and Barrichello at Honda, so no great surprise that the early season felt different for Fernando. And as for the favouritism towards Hamilton - he's a Brit and he's been signed to the team for 10 years, what did he really expect? His departure from McLaren has been a surprise only in that there have been no strings attached. Having gone through all the driver swap permutations, the news from his manager, Luis Garcia Abad, that he was "free to sign for any team next season" will have set BMW, Red Bull, Renault and Toyota thinking. Our prediction had been that Alonso's fate would be dragged out through the off-season and so a swift resolution and the fact that Alonso can go where he likes may point to two significant factors. Cash-strapped McLaren will need to hold on to their sponsors in 2008 and Banco Santander are a big sponsor. What Banco Santander didn't want was bad publicity from a national superstar such as Alonso. The team are also under fire from such ridiculous quarters as the Spanish minister of sport. Letting him go early will relieve the PR pressure on one of McLaren's important backers. In Spain through the summer of 2007 the bank ran a big poster campaign showing McLaren's two drivers. It wasn't Hamilton and Alonso, though. It was actually Pedro de la Rosa and Alonso. It's hard to quantify the degree of hatred that the Spanish have for Lewis Hamilton, but certainly the levels of national bigotry displayed by the Spanish media this year have made the normally jingoistic British tabloids look almost detached in their analysis of the situation. After the Brazilian GP we got: "At least we have the consolation that Hamilton did not win," from the presenter of the news on the Spanish channel Telecinco. Head of the Spanish FIA Carlos Gracia got into trouble before the Spanish GP by saying that the British were racist and implying that they'd sooner have Jenson Button winning the title, but even though Lewis Hamilton was "coloured" (a phrase not used in British media) he would do. Why he is still in his job is anybody's guess - if someone in the UK had said that they'd be clearing out their desk by Monday. The big irony is that it is Spanish sports fans who have been in trouble for racist abuse of visiting black European football players since 2004 and it's an issue that the Spanish government, their sports organisations and their media have to deal with sooner rather than later. Spain is hosting two GPs in 2008 and they need to be on their best behaviour. Given the degree of antipathy that McLaren have generated in Spain it's no surprise that Ron Dennis has decided to cut his losses and release Alonso. It was a decision that Williams co-owner and veteran F1 man Patrick Head predicted ahead of the Brazilian GP. I would expect Alonso to either have a long time gardening next year or to go to another team," Head told BBC Sport. "I suppose his relationship with McLaren boss Ron Dennis could be repaired, but I'd be surprised. I think it's unfortunate that it's got to this point, but that's the way it is. McLaren are a very, very fair team in the way they treat their two drivers. Fernando did not contemplate that there would be this young chap, Lewis Hamilton, who would be beating him, and he has reacted to that. From what I've seen, it does not look to me, or to many people in the pit-lane, as if Fernando has handled himself particularly well as a sportsman," he said. Where Alonso ends up seems to be a four-way race. BMW have the car, but no seat. Toyota have the money, but no car. Renault have a seat, most of the money, but no car. Red Bull have the money, no seat and most of the car. It's a game that can be played for a very long time with all sorts of combinations. (see separate feature) With a $50m hole in their finances McLaren will be sorely tempted to promote de la Rosa and keep hold of Banco Santander. Though he was no match for Raikkonen and wasn't as fast as Montoya, he did okay at the end of 2006. They'll hardly be wanting to shell out big money to buy out other star performers' contracts such as Rosberg or Button. Especially considering they will have smaller garages in 2008 thanks to finishing last in the constructors' table. The effects of Stepneygate will almost force them into concentrating their efforts on one driver, so why hire a big star name? Wherever Alonso ends up the immediate assumption will be that his team-mate will be relegated to the No.2 position. Having made the mistake about equal treatment once, he will want assurances that he is the No.1 driver wherever he moves to. So the next few weeks will be interesting for the rest of the grid as well as F1 fans. Will he go for a one-season deal, say at Toyota, with the prospect of moving on to Ferrari at some point in the near future. Alonso's mindset and the Ferrari regime seem like a marriage made in heaven. Right now, he's got his divorce. Andrew Davies
Looks like we will have at least until 2009 for Fernando to Hideaway at Ferrari (if you can believe Luca) Kimi and Alonso would be the two best drivers. However, Alonso could be a cancer and ruin the "team".
Could go 2 ways a dream team or a like a session with Satan in hell.. All depends on what happens next year if Kimi wins again I really can't see him playing #2 so you would have a situ like Mc had this year..hell who knows least it will make Andreas happy...
Phil, that was a great article by Davies. Alonso should have kept his mouth shut and gotten on with the task of racing, besides Ferrari only McLaren seem to have the car to get the job done. He is his worst own enemy.
Alonso acted like a little ****, but I can't help but thinking, that if Ron Dennis made Alonso #1 Driver Mclaren would have the WDC and the WCC.
Must be said that, excepting in the infamous Hungarian GP and in the Japanese GP (where he crashed the car), Alonso finished ahead of Hamilton in all the GGPP of the second hald of the season, so I think that he probably would have lost the WDC even with number 1 status.
, don't understand this post. With number 1 status Hungarian would never have happened, and Alonso also would have won the US GP, etc. Thus Alonso would have cruised deservingly into another WDC. Just think how different the WDC statistics would have been if MS had not been the firm number 1. Yes MS would have still slaughtered his team mates but it was the using his team mate to hold off "others" that allowed him to rack up the numbers. Pete
I agree as well. I think the entire reason it is taking so long for Ferando to finalize a deal with Renault is to see where this latest investigation is going to go and if Renault are penalized in some way for the 2008 season. I'd rather see him go to a team for 3 years and challenge for the WDC than waste a year with RBR unless he is able to confirm a Ferrari drive for 2009.
Although McLaren won 14 races the year of the Senna/Prost conflict, it was a conflict that blew in Japan. The Hamilton/Alonso conflict cost someone a WDC. Why dose everyone want the conflict of 2 of the top drivers at Ferrari? It will disrupt Ferrari at a time when other teams are seeing resurgence. Personnel changes and a spygate that's far from over. You have the perfect team, (as long as Massa knows his place) to confront an unknown future. Why muck it up?
Probably yes. But I meant that if they´d gave number one status to Hamilton they would have won too (even by a bigger margin). And what would happen if Raikkonen had number 1 status from the beginning? Well, like Russians say, if my mother had baird she would be my father (or something like that).
A clear #1 at McLaren for either driver would have most likely given that driver the title. A #1 for Kimi at Ferrari would have won him the championship (ceteris paribus at McLaren) a bit easier: He would have gotten a point from the USGP and a couple of points from Turkey. The rest he got anyway. With those additional 3 points it would have been less of a nail biter at Interlagos regarding what LH or the Sauber/Williams in front of him (LH that is) did.
I actually think LH would have still crumbled under the enormous British pressure ... I guess if he had such a huge lead that he sort of fell into the WDC he could still have crumbled and won. Fact is McLaren were stupid, you give priority to the proven driver ... no matter how fast the other appears to be. Especially easy to do when one is a rookie. Pete
Don´t be so rough. Even with his brain failures in the two last grandprix of the season Hamilton could won having number one status. He only needed the two points he lost in Monza, that would be enough for him. But giving some (very little) credit to Ron Dennis, must be said that the main reason of the McLaren disaster was not the issue of who was number one; the main problem was in Hamilton´s two errors in the last two races and in Alonso´s crash at Fuji. One could argue that being number one the drivers wouldn´t take so many risks, etc, but as Russians say...
Yes, exactly. All this BS about Kimi doesn't care who his teammate is, if ever true, changed when he won the 2007 WDC. There will not be two #1's at Ferrari until the Pope gets married. To a woman, to clarify. And I would agree with the post that considered Alonso is waiting to hear if Renault receives any form of penalty before making, or announcing, his decision.
I think it was messed up when Alonso blocked Hamilton in the pit during qualifying, robbing Hamilton of the pole. It was even more disturbing when Alonso wanted Mclaren to pull Hamilton out of the car in exchange for not telling what he knew about the espionage case. As far as I'm concerned, I don't care if Alonso never races in F1 again! This is obviously unlikely but would be interesting. My feeling is that Alonso knew Hamilton was the better driver, that is why he blocked hamilton and tried to get him out of the car. Ultimately, Alonso is going to go to Renault I think. They are going to try to create the same combination as when Alonso won the championship with them. Just my 2 cents. Mike
Hamilton didn't have enough time for a pitstop at that time anyway, even without the block from Alonso. He was just stirring the pot to make Alonso look bad (and it worked). Never heard that story. Alonso's blackmail attempt worked actually quite different: He wanted out of the contract. If Dennis wouldn't let him, he would use the emails, which would make McLaren look bad and hence his out of the contract clause would come into play. Had nothing to do with Hamilton. He blocked him in retaliation for Hamilton not obeying to team strategy: Hamilton got the extra lap at Silverstone and hence it was agreed by the team, that Alonso would get in front of Hamilton in qualifying at Hungaroring. Lewis ignored that deliberately and ticked off Alonso.
I agree, Hamilton did not follow team orders, but Hamilton still had enough time to get a lap in. As far as getting Hamilton out of the car, it was stated by the media. We all know how the media is but whether it is true or not, I would tend to think it was true. And why did Alonso want out of his contract, maybe because Hamilton was a better driver and would not take a back seat to the Rookie? I don't know just my thoughts. Mike
